Billy McKinney
New
Gotta get these folks hitting the line in the sand and leaves and whatnot. They know they're 'challenged'. Give 'em encouragement and get 'em laughing. Remember that part of our job is entertainment.
Lesson from Hell
- Thread starter bax1865
- Start date
- Status
If it's true that less than one half of one percent are scratch or better golfers. And most golfers struggle to break 90, with too many realistically not breaking 100 (if they count all their strokes) then there may be a market for this.
What I mean by this is traditional golf instruction has been a dismal failure if these numbers are true. In the macro-level golfers as a whole are not getting better. So to think of a simple pattern to get the ball advancing in a straight manner down the fairway and in the hole isn't that wild of an idea.
I've played with elderly golfers who can't hit the ball very high or far, but they hit it solid and straight. They never hit it out of bounds. So a relatively short swing designed to not hit it far, but solid and straight could be used for those golfers who are challenged with learning a traditional swing designed for length.
Before people get their drawers in a knot about this remember there are respected legends like Jack Nicklaus who are thinking out of the box to try and make golf easier and more fun. Golf is too hard and too expensive. Traditional golf instruction would fall into the old saying that doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.
So for the elitists who say if (for example) you make a course with the cup bigger then it's not golf. Fine call it something else. I've also read where the number of new golfers that come into the sport is matched or exceeded by the number of golfers leaving the sport.
So any new idea (as crazy as it may sound) on how to make golf easier should be looked at IMO.
Last edited:
Yea I gotta figure a way to mention Hogan in it.
Not every player has tour or scratch ambitions.People on these forums do not represent the majority.Most weekend players would be happy to legitimately break 90 consistently on a reasonably challenging course.
Yes,I was thinking about a Moe type short backswing perhaps combined with an upright Nicklaus swing to minimize forearm rotation.You may not hit it 300 yards but this pattern might be easier to perform for the athletically challenged.
Now I just need to find a way to associate it with Hogan's name.
Matt Bryda
New
Sometimes they don't know "how' challenged they are until you show them a little then like you said get um laughing.
Chip away at the issue and entertain some too.
dschultz6072
New
I doubt the hopeless hacker percentage is due to anything other than applied practice. And I mean REAL practice, not just bucket after bucket, but honest experimentation and self-development. Studying how your own (not such and such tour pro's) swing works, thinking about it, and eventually owning it. Sure, some pros don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, but come on. How many greats grew up with just a teaching pro who taught them simply how to grip and stand up to the ball and let their own swing develop? This is very different than the babysitter/coach mentality players have nowadays towards their instructors.
Tony D'Antonio
New
Kevin himself spent about an hour trying to teach yours truly how to hit a simple tour pitch. I have the video to prove it. Only after watching it about a hundred times and finally giving up on hitting the tour pitch did I have an epiphany about it. Looking back at the video he said that very thing directly to me and I never caught it. I am betting this guy if he was listening at all will find something useful.
Oh and thanks Kevin for not killing me on the spot.
ZAP, same thing has happened to me for many years after taking lessons from Ben Doyle. I spent hours watching the VCR tape of my lessons (yes they were many years ago) and Ben demonstrating the proper techniques in the backround. Only after many, many hours of thinking, watching, trialing, etc. did some of the patterns sink in, sometimes when I least expected it. And then I would recall a phrase that Ben used that I didn't understand at the time that summarized what he was asking me to do perfectly. Learning a complex motor skill is very, very hard, FOR EVERYONE.
hp12c
New
I think someone should invent a "hopeless hacker pattern" where any person with zero talent can use to break 85 consistently.
I have a few ideas on this pattern.....I'm serious
thats my pattern thank you very much!! Im gonna patent that sucka!
This thread raises a question I've always wanted to ask the instructors here: how do you improve a golfer who has an awful grip but doesn't want to change it?
I've done some informal teaching of about half a dozen golfers, and I've had a lot of success with golfers who would let me change their setup a bit (including their grip). But I had one student who refused to give up his 40 degree closed grip (i.e. extremely strong). He needed an NSA clubface fix, because he was a slicer who worked WAY under it in order to open the face. But no matter what I tried, he wouldn't give up the grip, and we never got anywhere. I have wondered how I might have gone about helping hiim while letting him keep his grip. I suppose I could have taught him a Zach Johnson pattern, but I didn't really know how to go about doing that...
I've done some informal teaching of about half a dozen golfers, and I've had a lot of success with golfers who would let me change their setup a bit (including their grip). But I had one student who refused to give up his 40 degree closed grip (i.e. extremely strong). He needed an NSA clubface fix, because he was a slicer who worked WAY under it in order to open the face. But no matter what I tried, he wouldn't give up the grip, and we never got anywhere. I have wondered how I might have gone about helping hiim while letting him keep his grip. I suppose I could have taught him a Zach Johnson pattern, but I didn't really know how to go about doing that...
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
Hopeless hacker pattern= Never Slice Again 2.0
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
I would try to penalize him for that grip so he'd want to change it
Spot on, take the reward (however infrequent it may be) away.
dschultz6072
New
How do you do that?
aaron_lohan
New
What if he decides to stop doing the thing that penalises him for his grip, you would be back to square one?
Fortunately I have plenty of business. In the days when I didn't, I had to put up with this BS. But at this point if they simply REFUSE to do what I've suggested, I exercise the bye-bye clause in the contract. If they are trying but physically incapable, different story; Then the onus is personal and I have to find another way for them to get the job done. BIG difference.
ZAP
New
I remember when my wife's boss came with us to see you. He thoroughly enjoyed the learning experience and credits you and Lindsay with his putting improvement. All he kept say on the ride home was how much he felt like he needed to change his grip to do the things you were asking him to do. I just smiled and asked why he thought that was.
- Status