Lever Assemblies ..........

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To: Brian Manzella G.S.E.D

Homer uses the concept of "levers" to define Power Accumulation, where at 6-B-0 he proclaims that:

"Force is applied to the Ball through the Lever Assemblies. Power is applied to the Lever Assemblies through Pressure Points. Power is applied to the Pressure Points by Power Accumulators."

Needless to say that Homer scientifically depended on his definition of Lever Assemblies at 6-A-2 and -3, as well as 2-K and 2-L. He states that Engineering is the study of the application of Levers.

I am having difficulty understanding the context of Homer's definition of the Primary and Secondary Lever Assemblies in 6-A-2 & -3. I can appreciate Homer's concept of Levers shown in the pictures on pages 64 & 65 as applicable in a Static balanced situation. However, these Lever concepts do not hold in a Dynamic golfswing situation. The Lever Forms change into Rotating Radii.

Biomechanically, the Left Shoulder cannot be called a Fulcrum. It is a Lever pivot point but certainly not a Fulcrum. The Torso and body to the feet can be a Fulcrum which supports the arm section of the Lever at the Fulcrum shoulder pivot point. The left shoulder is not a Fulcrum.

Homer shows the Primary Lever supporting Force as being the right hand and the leverage Weight being the golf club. If the Lever length is from the clubhead to the shoulder joint, surely the total weight of the club-arm Lever length should be considered as the downward weight to be carried by the right hand. The left arm weighs a great deal more than the golf club, so the Total Weight should be located somewhere in the left arm and not the club, THUS MAKING THE PRIMARY LEVER ASSEMBLY A FORM II LEVER AND NOT A FORM III LEVER.

He ignores the weight of the Left Arm section of the Lever length in his analysis. This is not good Engineering to present an incorrect Form III Lever when in fact it should be a Form II Lever. Since this Lever Form only applies in the Static position shown, it has no bearing on the Dynamic status of the club and left arm during the golfswing itself.

In the Secondary Lever Assembly, Homer again shows some kind of Static Lever position which is a sub-section of the Primary Lever. Homer shows a second Fulcrum existing in the larger Primary Lever, and creates a new Fulcrum, the LEFT WRIST !! Now the Left Wrist is a joint or pivot and not a Fulcrum support. I even question whether the Left Hand constitutes a Fulcrum in Homer's construct because you cannot have TWO Fulcrums in ONE lever, as Homer states. You just can't slide the "shoulder" Fulcrum down to a "hand" Fulcrum in a Lever length from clubhead to shoulder. It can even be argued that the Right Hand is the supporting Lever and the Left Hand the counter Force -- a Form I Lever.

No engineer would propose these as a Lever Assembly, or even as an Assembly of Levers with Fulcrums appearing out of nowhere ... as Homer has proposed.

Since Homer's dubious representations of Levers only holds for a Static condition, they do not apply in a Dynamic condition. Even at the Static Top of the Swing point, the Lever Form changes when the Fulcrum switches to the Right Hand holding up the club while the Left Hand becomes the balancing Force against the weight of the club -- a Form I Lever.

Homer states that Force is applied to the Ball through the Lever Assemblies, but how can this be if the Levers shown in 6-A-2 & -3 have vanished through Release and into Impact with the ball? It is scientifically proven that there is a momentary disconnection between the clubhead and shaft through Impact, so leverage cannot be used to "apply the Force to the Ball". The shaft and body disappears from the clubhead though Impact. What you "feel" is not scientifically "real", but it's okay for golfswing lessons.

When the golfswing action is dynamic, there is no leverage of the hands against the handle to apply Force to the ball. In engineering terms, the right and left hands constitute a "Force Couple" against the club handle and applying a Torque and not the Static Leverage that Homer describes in 6-A -3 for the Secondary Lever.

I think it is appropriate to question Homer's use of scientific and engineering concepts, particularily since he is so patently inaccurate if not outright wrong. Homer evidently does not understand the principles of Engineering Statics and Dynamics, since he was not a graduate engineer, and not professionally competent to apply this Science. Perhaps those that control TGM, would be wise to sanitize the scientific and engineering references out of TGM and just present us with the relevant definitions and methodology that Homer has so ingeniously crafted.

The TGM method is the "diamond", while the Science is the "rough". The best of the Season to you and all here ..... [8D]
 
No need to discard TGM in it's entirety, because the methodology is quite valid and being utilized by AI's in their teaching of the golfswing. However to attempt to dress it up in scientific parlance is not appropriate because much of Homer's science was incorrectly appied. He seems to drift and confuse inertial and non-inertial frames of reference in his Newtonian Physics, and then applies a Static condition to a Dynamic situation. That's a no-no in Kinetics and typical of laymen practicing Intuitive Physics.

I hope that the next edition of TGM eliminates the errors and contradictions in Homer's masterly works, and just keeps the colorful terminology and valid methodology that the AI's pragmatically use to teach. As it currently sits, TGM is wholly unsuitable for learning the golfswing on your own, because it is too convoluted in all it's back-referencing and mish-mash of science and method.

I sincerely believe that the owners of TGM and the many AI's should hold a Clarification Conference to produce a Practical TGM for the masses who are too ashamed, poor or stupid to seek golfswing instruction, and stubbornly want to create a homemade golfswing, then proudly proclaiming it was TGM that made them great.

Who knows, but that the AI's may even come up with their own additions to TGM, like the LEVER ASSEMBLIES with the newly discovered FLYING FULCRUMS ..... !!!!!!!!!!!
 

Mathew

Banned
Horton - Stop your ranting and start learning.... starting with the order set out in the preface :)

Your at least literate I'll give you that, but really im just reading your posts and thinking how much fog is in your golfing life ....
 
Horton, Reviewing your posts above, I started a shopping list of corrections, however, after the second page I tossed em in the trash. I remembered, you're not here to build or learn, you're here to tear down and destroy. So, why would anyone want to help you. I'll point you in the right direction. Take everything you "THINK" you know about levers and toss it off the highest building. Proceed as fast as you can to an AI and have them explain it to you. Oh, yeah! Bring your wallet.

PS. someone here posted an instructional video you directed. How much did it cost to get that old crusty dude from the Metallica videos to take his shirt off and model for you?
 
horton,

What you perceive as "faulty science" really bothers you, I guess. But, trying to read your posts gives me a headache and a nagging feeling that it's time I could better spend - like hitting an impact bag.
 
Pick up a golf club and take a lesson. You owe it to yourself to play a round of golf, before you start talking about it. That way if somebody uses any foreign terms to you, like tee, fairway, bunker, or green, you'll have an idea what they mean.
 
With the gross scientific errors, that I have easily identified in TGM, why do you think that the PGA does not accept nor approve of TGM as a golfswing teaching method? You can't give the stamp of approval to something that is basically incorrect in it's logic. Homer says that his book is based on scientific principles. His science is clearly wrong in many cases. So how can his results be correct? Where is Homer's scientific testing to prove his science is correct? He doesn't. Only his faithful followers accept his gospel as golfswing truth.

Overlooking Homer's factual errors, let us grant him his golfswing methodology, but at least make it comprehensible on first reading and not requiring infinite interpretation and plodding through a maze of cross references that lead to more cross references. No clear-minded, rational person woutd attempt to make sense of what is presented in TGM because TGM is a mess. Another reason that the PGA rejects TGM.

Science simplifies if you understand science. Those that do not understand Newtonian Physics and are defending TGM are only howling to the moon. Homer has over-complicated the golfswing with his erroneous scientific blather, and nobody here, except me (and perhaps mandrin) are able to expose Homer's ignorance. Homer was only deluding himself that he could apply science to the golfswing by just declaring Newton's 3 Laws of Motion and the non-existent Law of Centrifugal Force.

Homer was obviously faking the Science in the 1960's, when nobody, except the British with Search for a Perfect Swing, did any scientific testing on the golfswing. Homer ignored SPS because he did not understand the Science behind the golfswing. Plain and simple, Homer was scientifically incompetent.

corky, mathew, rundmc, are only trying to shoot the messenger, but pellet gun popping is futile. Sorry for destroying your golfswing world revolving around faulty TGM. Time to grow up kiddies.
 
"Howling at the moon", couldn't be more appropriate. Thats exactly what your doing! You would like to be a messenger of something noteworthy, but, you haven't the credibility or the respect to warrant anyone to listen to you. Subsequently, you, "Howl" but, fall on deaf ears. And the exodus from one forum to this forum continues, so, you are more like the "Pied Piper" than "Mercury". Thanks! We couldn't have done it without you! Thanks for another early gift.
 
If TGM is not purged of it's scientific screwups, it will die a horrible and agonizing death with only a few comedic disciples preaching it's mantras. If my grandmother can't understand it, why should the average golfer have any faith in it? You guys are a dying breed who are only bedazzled with Homer's cornucopia of confusion. You guys like masochistic mind twisters, while I prefer the K.I.S,S. (Keep It Simple Scientifically) approach.

In fact scientists who play golf hate to think scientifically about it because that's like working while trying to play. PLEASE PLEASE GET RID OF THE SCIENCE IN TGM SO WE SCIENTISTS CAN UNDERSTAND IT AND LEARN HOW TO DO THE FLYING WEDGIES ... !!!!!!!!
 
The Sky Is Falling, Chicken Little! You keep believing that and all the published scientists that don't play golf. LOL!
 
quote:Originally posted by brianman

Horton...

Gary Wiren asked Homer to look at "Search for the Perfect Swing" and Homer found 50 errors.

Come on.....GMAFB!

Only 50 ???!!!!! Hell, I found more than that !!!!

But Science marches on and now we have more and better scientific knowledge about the golfswing. Meanwhile TGM science exists in a 1960's time warp.

My concern is that the goodness of TGM will be buried with it's rotten scientific corpse, and the golfing world will have lost Homer's excellent insights into the workings of the golfswing. There will only be a few mad high priests (AI's) left to preach to an ever doubtful and shrinking audience, while the PGA and the equipment manufacturers bleed the gullible golfers dry of mind and money.

Yes the vile and brutal truth about the scientific failings of TGM must pain the Homer-loving TGMers, but it must come out if TGM is to be saved for future generations of golfers so they may benefit from Homer's unique golfswing methodology. Everybody here just seem to want to keep TGM as it is and just exploit it and then throw it into the dustbin of golf antiquity ... along with Hogan and Jones. Pity ....

It seems as if I am the only one who wants to update TGM to take advantage of the current Golfswing Science, to make it relevant and palatable for everybody who Love's the Game of Golf. Somehow I think that Homer would agree with me 100%. Somehow I think that Homer would consider many of you as backward if not traitorous to the advancement of TGM.

If only Homer were here briefly to help guide us out of this moronic misguided morass.
 
You've tried to equate that you and Homer are peers, equals, contemporarys. You don't actually believe that do you?
 
quote:Originally posted by corky05

You've tried to equate that you and Homer are peers, equals, contemporarys. You don't actually believe that do you?

Had I met Homer, I think we would have gotten along famously ..... me telling him to can the scientific sh!t ... and him sharing his colorful analysis and terminology on how he saw the workings of the golfswing. I think we would have developed a fine synergy where 1 + 1 would equal 3 ... and all you strugglng golfers would have no need to parse out the scientific crap from TGM.

Life would be oh so simpler if in the next edition of TGM, all the science was neatly explained away in one chapter, or paragraph, and the Imperatives, Zones and Components were left to stand on their own merits.

Come on corky ... you gotta agree with me on this one .... [:X]
 
quote:Originally posted by horton



... It is scientifically proven that there is a momentary disconnection between the clubhead and shaft through Impact, so leverage cannot be used to "apply the Force to the Ball". The shaft and body disappears from the clubhead though Impact. What you "feel" is not scientifically "real", but it's okay for golfswing lessons.

Say - WHAT!!?? [:0]


fen - "I feel another Kodak moment approaching... "
 
If you really believe that, why don't you publish a book. One specifically for scientists aspiring to improve their golf game. Back-up your mouth with action. When you approach the publisher with your business plan and you tell him who your target audience is, let me know how excited they were to support your endeavor. After they reject your idea of a golf book targeted to scientists, forge on, on your own and foot the expenses for the publication of this book. You could sell the book out of the trunk of your car at Star Wars conventions and maybe by the year 4005 you could recoup half of your expenses.
I highly, suggest you put tons of footnotes giving credit to the non-golfing authors of engineering papers, myriad math equations, and don't forget graphs and tables. I can't emphasize the value of these graphs and tables to the success of your book. You can just imagine, you've heard how a picture tells a thousand words, OVERRATED, people want charts and graphs in their golf instruction.
Well! On that note, I'm sure you have plenty of research to do on your upcoming book. Don't want to keep you from actually trying to build something, as, opposed to trying to tear down. This is a real growth opportunity for you! Check - in every ten or fifteen years to update us on your progress.
 
Now corky !!!!! ... Have you completely lost it the day before Xmas????

I am advocating that the owners and AI's of TGM sanitize out the science from TGM so as to extricate themselves from the vulnerability of criticism. We all know that Homer's science was faked only because he tried so hard to garner some credibility from the neanderthal thinking of the golf world in the 1960's. Now in the 21st Century, we have a plethora of scientific discovery around the mind and matter of the golfswing that it would make you go in a tizzy trying to make sense of it.

No corky et al, I am opposed to the combining of pure Science and pure TGM because the Science used by poor Homer was flawed, fake and even funny. Get rid of the Science in the new 7th edition and purify TGM so that it is acknowledged as the best and finest compendium of golfswing basics and fundamentals ever published. It's all there if it were not for the silly Science and outrageous cross-referencing that only glues up the works.

What I sense is happening and fear is that a few greedy types are happy with TGM as it is in it's unparseable form so they can keep it exclusively their domain of golfswing mystery. "It must be right because it's so hard to figure out when you read it and only those versed in the art and magic can understand it and then bring it to the grovelling masses."

Btw, corky, have you figured out all the Lever Forms that exist in the Static and Dynamic phases of the Golfswing yet??? There is more than one, you know ...... gotta go ... the party is starting .... Best to all for the Season .... [8D]
 
Now (fill in the blank)!!!!!! Isn't this the kind of condescending start to a post that turns a forum into a ghost town? Its no wonder there's an exodus from that other brand?

Or, just maybe its the flawed, fake and funny contributions Homer has made to the golf community that has increased the Manzella forum.

Enjoy the party, don't forget your pocket protector! Hope ya start feelin better!
 
IMO Brain has acknowleged that he would like to see more understandable information be given in regards to Homer's teachings. Feel and real are different. In this regard, Homer was not perfect. None of us are. I think AI's must keep their minds open. Particularly in regards to modern science. We have more advanced motion analysis available today. Brian is correct in regards to how to improve The Golfing Mechine. I asked one of the most brilliant scientific minds I have ever known, who is a scratch golfer and club champion, to take a look at some of the discussions on this forum and to look at some chapters of The Golfing Mechine. He told me that there are scientific errors. But, that Homer's swing principles seem effective. I love this forum and I have learned a great deal. Just because Homer wasn't perfect doesn't change a thing in regrads to how much I lean here. I was on another forum and read a post that poked fun of his forum for being overly technical and cult like. I decided to check this site out. Boy am I glad I did. Information doesn't confuse if it is well presented. It makes things easier. I don't fear information I love it. Thanks Brian.
 
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