Live from the 2007 MIT Better Golf Through Technology Summit

[mandrin]

Where's Mandrin when you need him!?

Jim,

Eliminating the back swing out of the golf swing does away with an excellent way loading the ‘power package’ through lag take away and especially inertial recoil at the transition. I am sure it is possible to learn to play excellent golf standing on your head but why make it more difficult than it is already.

Nevertheless it is quite possible that for some amateur golfers leaving out the take away might make them feel more secure, more comfortable and allow them to have more fun by keeping the ball more readily in play. Moreover it adds another source for vigorous debate on golf forums.

Golf is a matter of balance, of force and finesse, of containment and explosion, of letting go and purpose, a sweet judicious mixture of yin and yang. Just a downswing is too much of a one sided affair. Just one step more and we are left with virtual golf.

 

[joeparr]

I took a lesson from Tomasi and I gave him a F-.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Jim,

Eliminating the back swing out of the golf swing does away with an excellent way loading the ‘power package’ through lag take away and especially inertial recoil at the transition. I am sure it is possible to learn to play excellent golf standing on your head but why make it more difficult than it is already.

Nevertheless it is quite possible that for some amateur golfers leaving out the take away might make them feel more secure, more comfortable and allow them to have more fun by keeping the ball more readily in play. Moreover it adds another source for vigorous debate on golf forums.

Golf is a matter of balance, of force and finesse, of containment and explosion, of letting go and purpose, a sweet judicious mixture of yin and yang. Just a downswing is too much of a one sided affair. Just one step more and we are left with virtual golf.

Thanks Mandrin

If you are ever in the Chicago-land area please contact me as i'd love to show you around town and pick your brain, on me of course for all your contributions!

 

[johngolf33]

How did James Leitz do with his presentation?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Grades will be "out" soon.

 

[shootin4par]

why not just go into impact fix and go forward from there?

 

[puttmad]

...

Jim,

Eliminating the back swing out of the golf swing does away with an excellent way loading the ‘power package’ through lag take away and especially inertial recoil at the transition. I am sure it is possible to learn to play excellent golf standing on your head but why make it more difficult than it is already.

Nevertheless it is quite possible that for some amateur golfers leaving out the take away might make them feel more secure, more comfortable and allow them to have more fun by keeping the ball more readily in play. Moreover it adds another source for vigorous debate on golf forums.

M,,
Althought it may not be conducive to a purely efficient golfswing, I can see instances where stopping at the top would be a good training drill for learning the feeling of activating the lower body first on the downswing...
The different series of actions a good player makes "at the top" compared to the average golfer, is, as you said, the difference between a good golf swing and a bad one.
A good player will be starting the lower body while the hands are still travelling towards the target behind his head, whereas an average player will have a tendency to stop everything before staring down (with everything)..and you know where that usually leads..

Therefore, anything that teaches (and I know there are other ways) or ingrains or illustrates the correct lower body movement from the top can't be such a bad thing....

Just my two penneth...

 

[Erik_K]

Tomasi teaching the no backswing stroke...

Leadbetter already tried this (swing of the future).

It's crap and everyone knows it. There's a reason why so many players on Tour have similar looking swings in my opinion. Yes, they all have their differences, too, and sometimes they are quite pronounced. But if you take a look at 20 or 30 tour players, you'll find numerous things in common. If swinging the club without a backswing was superior in any way, we would have heard something by now and/or seen it on tour.

 

[mcflog]

In his study, 29 golfers took 10 radar-tracked swings -- half with a backswing and half without. Tomasi reported that except among professional golfers, there was no statistically significant difference in the accuracy or distance of the shots, and hypothesized that if instructors taught the "no backswing" technique, accuracy would improve.

But he also asked the audience what it would take to persuade golfers to ignore deeply-rooted tradition.

A member of the audience had the answer: "When they hit it farther and straighter."

My guess is that was Brian.

 

[Steve Khatib]

Hello, Ben, Joanne, Damon, and Lee....keep that boy in line.

Geaux Tigers!

No No Mike : GO BLUES!

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[Damon Lucas]

MIT

My thoughts from the summit.....

1. Brian should be on the stage looooooonnnng before most of those guys;
2. The 'scientists' who present at these seminars need to consult more thoroughly with golf professionals before conducting studies that mean little and help less;
3. The 'fitness' guys need to be a little less condescending, understand the golf swing(s) a little better, and ...consult golf professionals who know something. They did have plenty of good material, and tended to be the most proficient presenters;
4. David Orr/David Edel did very well with their studies of putting aim;
5. Rick Martino did very well when he had the 'mike';
6. The spawn of Donald Trump and Joan Rivers DOES exist!
7. I only walked out once!
8. The lunches/dinners are generally the most productive/invigorating/entertaining times;
9. I would like to see Brian present something, possibly with the help of Mandrin;
10. I think that this forum and one or two others still provide huge opportunities for knowledge and interactions.

Cheers!
Damon

 

[Amen Corner]

No No Mike : GO BLUES!

www.carltonfc.com.au

No, sorry Steve, YOU are wrong. GO TIGERS......

http://richmondfc.com.au/

 

[Brian Manzella]

My guess is that was Brian.

Actually, it wasn't.

But....I did have the ANSWER to a question that Tomasi had for the attendees:

"I really don't understand why the best players lost a fair amount of distance with the "No-Backswing" swing. I was hoping someone could give me the answer??"

"No problem," said Brian Manzella, golf's Answer Man, "Good Players know how to USE the backswing to load the shaft and their 'angles.' Regular Golfers don't."

 

[TYORKE1]

other than the no backswing junk, any other new ideas,

 

[FloydPT38]

Question for Brian and anyone else?

Question for Brian and others who attended the summit regarding what role they (actual golf instructors) ascribe to golf and exercise.

I know this topic was covered @ the summit both last year and this year but
1- I don’t know exactly what was said
2- Curious about how instructors integrate or don’t integrate the info when teaching Mr Smith at 11:00.


Damon Lucas said this

2. The 'scientists' who present at these seminars need to consult more thoroughly with golf professionals before conducting studies that mean little and help less;
3. The 'fitness' guys need to be a little less condescending, understand the golf swing(s) a little better, and ...consult golf professionals who know something. They did have plenty of good material, and tended to be the most proficient presenters;

Damon, could you elaborate or anyone else that attended.

Thanks,
George

 

[Damon Lucas]

Hi George,

Thanks for the question!
When someone comes for a golf lesson, they want a golf lesson. So I give them one. If that means working around physical deficiencies, so be it. If someone's work won't allow a lot of practice, so be it. And if it is a hobby to that person, as it is for most, so be it.

It isn't too hard to recognize someone who wants speedier progress, and that might include some physical training of some sort. Juniors especially will benefit, and if I work with someone over a period of time, I would discuss and encourage anyone to improve diet, fitness, the 'mental' side of the game, whatever might help that person.

For me, I love hearing about how the body works and how it could work better, but it is not for everybody.

Cheers,
Damon

 

[bts]

That's the sad, yet fun, part.

.....................
2. The 'scientists' who present at these seminars need to consult more thoroughly with golf professionals before conducting studies that mean little and help less;
3. The 'fitness' guys need to be a little less condescending, understand the golf swing(s) a little better, and ...consult golf professionals who know something. They did have plenty of good material, and tended to be the most proficient presenters;
.......................

I didn't attend the event, yet I pretty much expected opinion like these to come up.

How do scientists study golf, if they don't understand, or even play, golf?

How do golf professionals study golf, if they don't understand, or even practice, science?

Well..., it's actually beyond golf and science. So, even they do, I'm not sure if it won't "mean little and help less".

WTH, there is still gonna be lots of fun, isn't it?

 

[Brian Manzella]

I was there.

The best part for me was just being there.

There are NO "summits" that are wastes of time. I am learning every step of the way. At worst, I am learning what THEY know.

But I am THERE.

You wanna be the BEST???

You can't sit 'em all out. You can't be a TGMer and NOT go to the TGM Summits. A Golf teacher and not go to the PGA and MIT Summits. Well, you can, but if you don't, you CAN'T KNOW more than me.

Because I AM there.

You can't go design golf courses or sell insurance, or whatever for 5 minutes, 10 months or 20 years and be AHEAD of me.

Impossible.

At a Summit like the MIT Summit, where you can ask questions, it is OBVIOUS WHO knows and who doesn't.

I know. Because I show!

 

[FloydPT38]

Damon (and/or others there),
Thanks for the reply – I work on the other end of the spectrum –more rehab oriented so I am always curious as to how fitness or “scientific” speakers are received by the actual teaching professionals. I recognize that at the end of the day you teach golf to people and one of my jobs is to help people return to the course or to be able to take a lesson.

With the fitness or scientific speakers you heard this year, did you learn anything that you will actually be able to use this week? I believe that all golf information (if it is quality stuff) can be integrated eventually to help you be a better teacher or better therapist but just wondering what you took away from those speakers this year?
Post summit quiz

Thanks
George

 

[The Return of NAT]

I was there 2

I felt the best presentations were from the golf professionals... The scientists, as usual, lacked the knowledge and application of the game...Why?...because either they cannot play at high level themselves or they just don't play at all...It was very evident in their own demonstrations and explanations. You can theorize all you want and intimidate others with all your intellect, BUT unitl you can do it yourself or help someone else do it..you really do not understand your area of expertise...Until you can do it better than us (the golf professionals), all you "Captain Scientists" out there, keep your condescending tones and remarks to yourself!!!!