Live from the 2007 MIT Better Golf Through Technology Summit

[jpvegas1]

Mike Austin and Brian Manzella

that is exactly why I dont understand why more people dont look at what Mike austin was saying. he studied the sciences long ago and he produced a swing that any tour player would want.

I have taken a lesson from Mike Austin and a few from Brian Manzella. In my opinion Brian is the superior teacher. To me a good teacher should work with the student, their strengths and weaknesses to improve their game. Also, I like to ask questions during a lesson and Brian is patient and answers my questions of how and why we are doing something. I do better when I know the reason for a change.

In my lesson from Austin he more or less told me, he didn't have any f***n time for my questions. He didn't really care how I swung the club to see what he had to work with, he just was going to show me what he wanted me to do. When I said something didn't make sense to me, he wouldn't re-word or re-explain, he would just repeat the same thing in a louder voice. For me it was a frustrating experience and one I didn't repeat.

 

[shootin4par]

I have taken a lesson from Mike Austin and a few from Brian Manzella. In my opinion Brian is the superior teacher. To me a good teacher should work with the student, their strengths and weaknesses to improve their game. Also, I like to ask questions during a lesson and Brian is patient and answers my questions of how and why we are doing something. I do better when I know the reason for a change.

In my lesson from Austin he more or less told me, he didn't have any f***n time for my questions. He didn't really care how I swung the club to see what he had to work with, he just was going to show me what he wanted me to do. When I said something didn't make sense to me, he wouldn't re-word or re-explain, he would just repeat the same thing in a louder voice. For me it was a frustrating experience and one I didn't repeat.

austin believed the body and joints should act the same way in all swings and he studied these things very in depth. He believed in one optimum way to swing the club and that way is also better on the body. He only had one style of pivot, the hands only moved one way. The only difference was looks between body types, not actions but just the way it looked. Mike also studied martial arts for the chinese goverment.

The way people learn in the US is not the way people learn in some other countries. For example, in many countries teachers are not supposed to be questioned, UNTIL the pupil has studied what the teacher is presenting. In the US the students are always asking questions and many times way too soon. So some people would not like his style of teaching, he was very up front

 

[matt kluck]

James Leitz was excellent. I made more notes during his presentation than during the last two summits. Rick Martino did a good job and I would rate him highly as a knowledgeable teacher and a great communicator. Brian Manzella presented himself well at the summit and raised very pertinent questions of each presenter. He was a distinct asset to the overall information gathering process! Averages are terrible and not applicable. Science is great if you know how to use the information and better yet, apply it to better the student. I do not ask questions, I learn from the information presented, do not offer how to make the study better and extend the study for my own betterment. I will conclude, decipher and collect results from continuing the ideas presented at the summit. I will never miss one and one day hope to join Brian, Damon, Ben and the rest at one of their summits. Good G.O.L.F. to you all and as Ben would say "Sustain the lag"!!
MK

 

[Brian Manzella]

austin believed the body and joints should act the same way in all swings and he studied these things very in depth. He believed in one optimum way to swing the club and that way is also better on the body. He only had one style of pivot, the hands only moved one way. The only difference was looks between body types, not actions but just the way it looked. Mike also studied martial arts for the chinese goverment.

The way people learn in the US is not the way people learn in some other countries. For example, in many countries teachers are not supposed to be questioned, UNTIL the pupil has studied what the teacher is presenting. In the US the students are always asking questions and many times way too soon. So some people would not like his style of teaching, he was very up front

I think that the point that JP was trying to bring up—and there is at least one other regular forum member who has told me the exact same thing about my overall "real world" teaching ability vs. Mr. Austin's—is that some people like themselves need a teacher who can adapt to different learning styles, different body types, teaches multiple patterns in multiple ways to golfers with various skill levels and goals.

This is a very important point about what it is that I do on a day to day basis that almost no other teacher does—take the best of all the available information, and use my experience and God-given teaching ability to help the greatest percentage of golfers.

Case in point: At the Masters' I watched ALL of the teaching going on, learned everything I could about it, and will adjust my teaching if any of the information warrants. Doubtful if any of those guys are studying me. I actually watched teachers making mistakes that I made a few years ago.

I am—thankfully—not making those mistakes anymore.

Mike Austin was a wonderful swinger of the club, a brilliant man with many loves and talents, and we are indebted to his contribution to the game.

I think his stuff is really, really good, and I have learned a lot from it.

Please forgive me for thinking—in my heart of hearts, and with the blessing of everyone who has worked with both of us (that I know of)—that my stuff and my style is just a teeny bit better.

 

[shootin4par]

Please forgive me for thinking—in my heart of hearts, and with the blessing of everyone who has worked with both of us (that I know of)—that my stuff and my style is just a teeny bit better.

that is a statement I can relate to. One must believe in themselves and trust themselves more then they trust anyone else. Sometimes when we do that we will be right and sometimes wrong, but that is the part where we have to figure out for ourselves.

 

[Brian Manzella]

The EARS and the HEART...

In my heart, and my head, I know how good I teach "against the field."

But in this case Neil, two really good players have told me exactly that when it comes to Mr. Austin.

It means WAY MORE to me to HEAR IT, then to THINK IT.

 

[shootin4par]

understanding Mike is not easy, I have watched his tapes for about 4 months now. What has it done for me? before watching it I could put the ball to the 150 mark or beyond using a six iron and two different swings
now? I can put it there or beyond six ways. Mike has a method with parts that are not interchangable, but when you start to understand what he says, only in his tapes, not in the watered down peaceriver, , you start to see why. Ask roverman about the 7th edition pattern and the MA swing, you have nothing to loose.
Mike is a lot like ben, old school style. Now you correct me if I am wrong but the vibe I get from ben, is you must do your home work and dont come for one day hope for enlightenment. Mike and Ben expect you to build a game, they both would teach their way and if they loose a student because of that, so be it.

 

[Tronner]

Here are the STONE FACTS:

The MIT Summit was a mix of about 60 TEACHERS, 30 SCIENCE GUYS, and 40 PHYSICAL GUYS.

The fact is is that they are ALL CORRECT to a point.

The Teachers know how to teach. The Science Guys know Science, and the Physical Guys know the body.

To me they just need to learn from each other, and that was done at this Summit.

Can't wait for next year.

Brian,

First off, let me say that you've done a great job with your site and your forum! I was introduced to it by one of your members who recently joined our staff. I've enjoyed reading through some of the topics.

I couldn't agree with you more about this year's conference. Last year was very poor in my opinion, especially for a conference that is supposed to revolve around the use of technology to help us all help golfers better.

I think it's a shame that this year's attendance was down so much due to, in my opinion, poor choices in speakers last year. The presentations this year were, if nothing else - interesting, technology based to a better degree, and informative.

Steve Atherton

 

[Tronner]

Atherton ....B...Averages?...that's the problem with stats...and Model Golf

David,

Good to see you again at the conference! I'm sorry we didn't have a chance to chat a bit more. I have enjoyed our swing discussions in the past, and I appreciate your ranking of my presentation. I do want to clear up a couple of things that I believe people misunderstand about us and what we do.

Please understand that we are a company of golf professionals, not just some guys who measure swings and tell people what to do because they don't match a model. We use the averages as a basis for helping people understand the movement of the swing better. I presented averages at MIT because that's what kind of data they asked for.

I have attended the last 4 Teaching and Coaching summits and completed my Master Professional certification so that I can become the best instructor and teaching professional that I can - that's why I've enjoyed reading this forum as well!

I can tell you that measuring every single golf swing that I have come in contact with over the past 7 years and comparing that data to our tour averages has been invaluable to learning the true cause and effect relationships within the golf swing. In fact, it has taught me far more than any book I've ever read or any training I ever received from the PGA.

Please don't think that I am coming in here to promote the company I work for or to knock what anyone else is doing. I would never do that on Brian's forum or anyone else's for that matter. I just wanted to shed some light on the value of using averages to help people get better and let you know that there is a LOT more to how we teach than just those averages.

I do appreciate the feedback, and it gives me more fuel to make a better presentation next year!

 

[bcoak]

"BM:The MIT Summit was a mix of about 60 TEACHERS, 30 SCIENCE GUYS, and 40 PHYSICAL GUYS.

The fact is is that they are ALL CORRECT to a point.

The Teachers know how to teach. The Science Guys know Science, and the Physical Guys know the body.

To me they just need to learn from each other, and that was done at this Summit.

Can't wait for next year."

Watched the exercise show TPI on TGC last night with Zach Johnson and it was interesting that he has a biomechanical guy for his swing, a swing teacher (Bender) and physical therapist. They all work in conjunction to develop a comprehensive workout for him. A little far fetched for the amateur but if you have the $ to pay all three it sure would be fun!
I wonder if some low tech/$ combo of these three will ever be possible for the everyday golfer.

 

[tongzilla]

Video clips of the summit

http://www.bgtt.org/videoclips2007.html