Looks contrived as heck...(now with a Manzella answer)

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That's the whole point of having a swing coach right? He's supposed to catch those things before they get out of hand. That's also a big difference between an amateur and a tour player most amateurs will go and get that one or two lessons until they start hitting the ball solidly then they think they don't have to go back. Of course we all know it doesn't take very long to end up with another bad habit if your not practicing the right things. With TW though, of course this isn't going to be a problem he'll have more coaching than he can stand I'd suspect... especially going into the off season. When a swing goes bad, you can only try and fix one or two things at a time. Even TW is still only human.

I can understand that, but who's stepping in during that sequence?

Think about it, Tiger pops it up and he goes on to rehearse a move that could very well cause him to pop it up again. Foley apparently hasn't told Tiger what to watch out for to know when he's done it too much.

Now consider the following. Lets assume Tiger sees Foley two times a week. In the time not ONCE has Foley apparently informed Tiger that if he exaggerates it too much, he could pop up the ball. Is that because Foley didn't anticipate it being a problem? Sure, I can see that. But the reaction that Tiger had to the bad shot is important. His reaction to a bad shot was to rehearse something that would make it WORSE.
 

greenfree

Banned
It's a process and who knows what Tiger feels in his swing and how he relates to this different instruction, time will tell and it may be interesting trying to analyse it but it's still early days, wake me up when it's over.
 

iacas

New
Wow. He is going to be worthless for the Ryder Cup. You see the rehersal after the drive? He wants his upper body a foot forward of the ball at impact? The world may very well see the death of SnT if this keeps up.

So because Tiger does something that has nothing to do with S&T, we'll see the death of S&T if Tiger's swing doesn't come around? There's some sound reasoning...

Looks like he's focusing on getting his CoG's moving targetward on the downswing and he was doing a drill to exaggerate that. I wouldn't pay attention to the follow thru, just a result of the 'drill' of him trying to exaggerate what he's doing.

That deserves merit as well. He's not playing golf in the first video, he's working on his swing. He's "practicing on the course." We all have people do drills or get feelings that don't actually look like what we want to see people doing in their golf swings.

Bang on me all you want, but I see 0 reason someone should be rehearsing that move. If you can practice it, you can do it.... if he does that, watch out low and right.

Here's a reason: it's the opposite of Tiger's head dropping back and to the right, so he may have to "feel" as if his head actually goes forward and maintains its altitude coming down. We've taught this to people - "feel as if your head is going a foot forward" to counter-act their head moving six inches to their right.

I disagree that eventually students WILL exaggerate. If they do that, I might say you've not taught them well. We're clear in telling people that they need to exaggerate the opposite feeling at first to get them into the correct spots, but they know what the correct spots are and they know that the FEELING of exaggeration is just a feeling that should, ideally, lessen over time as they get into more correct spots.

I have no idea what that is supposed to do for Tiger - and I've read the book. To me, that follow-through is like a little trophy branding. It says, on live TV, "SnT woz here"

The principle is "hit fast, stop fast" in that your muscles can fire faster if they know they're going to throw on the brakes. There's some science to it (and likely some science against it, but I've not read the anti-braking stuff), and I've read some things here and there, but nothing recent and it's not a terribly important piece, frankly... Charlie Wi's the poster boy and his driver swing isn't all that short. He still gets the driver shaft behind his neck at the end.


If what he "felt" was exaggerated but what he was DOING was right, I've got no problem. That's not the case.

He's practicing in that first video - he's not playing golf.

Exaggerate the move to bring you back to the center. The problem is, how does he know he's going too far?

Either he knows where the end point is or Foley will tell him. Why make the illogical assumption that the two of them don't have a road map?

A bad shot will just reinforce the idea that he's still not doing it enough. Then he's just going to learn to do it too much.

More assumptions.

We see it ALL THE TIME with every amateur stuck on the range. Over doing something and hitting horrible shots, then thinking they need to do it more to fix it.

We never see it in the students we teach. Those amateurs on the range don't have an instructor, and haven't spent the time Tiger's likely spent with his instructor planning out what they're going to do. They just got a tip from the Internet or a magazine or something and, yeah, are probably overdoing it (or, more likely, not doing it properly at all and are more likely to be overdoing something else).

You're making a lot of assumptions from one swing on video. If I were inclined to do the same I might say that Tiger knows he might pop it up if he slides forward too much, so his moves afterwards could indicate that he was trying to recreate the feeling he had during the swing to further refine his "feel versus real" model or matrix.
 
I am not assuming Tiger's reaction to a bad shot. His reaction was to rehearse doing something that would make the bad shot worse. All the other objections you bring up to my point of view stem from your belief that I'm going beyond logical conclusions. IMO, there are big differences between assumptions and logical conclusions.

Either Foley has not told Tiger when too much is too much, or has not driven the point hard enough with Tiger to prevent him from going too far. Which is it? Either way, something is wrong here.
 
I can understand that, but who's stepping in during that sequence?

Think about it, Tiger pops it up and he goes on to rehearse a move that could very well cause him to pop it up again. Foley apparently hasn't told Tiger what to watch out for to know when he's done it too much.

Now consider the following. Lets assume Tiger sees Foley two times a week. In the time not ONCE has Foley apparently informed Tiger that if he exaggerates it too much, he could pop up the ball. Is that because Foley didn't anticipate it being a problem? Sure, I can see that. But the reaction that Tiger had to the bad shot is important. His reaction to a bad shot was to rehearse something that would make it WORSE.

Then your most likely right, perhaps Foley never saw that kind of a problem coming and Tiger has taken this tip past it's effective point all the way to the other side of the spectrum. Then hopefully it will be noticed and fixed... which I'd assume a tour pro instructor would be able to notice. Unless perhaps he wasn't rehearsing the body movement at all. Maybe that's what his impact position feels like to him right now and he was just practicing trying to get his hands back in front of him before he gets to the ball because his normal big miss is when the club stays behind him too long and he pushes that sucker to the next county.
 
Foley

Maybe we are being a little tough on Foley O'Hair has done decently well the last couple of years. Looks more conventional than S&T.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phEWUVJE3CA[/media]
 
ah that's not true. who's to say that Foley even wants tiger to work on this in the first place... we aren't in their conversations, what do we know? Good luck to the man, this is his chance and I hope he makes the most of it. Not like anything we say about this matters anyway... unless someone out there has tiger's cell number in their pocket or something =D haha.
 
If it all works out for Tiger I'll be the first one to congratulate Foley.

Brian, your post wasn't a waste of time.... I think you know that. ;)
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Just the fact's Ma'm

I could be wrong but my perception is there have been more negative Foley posts by board members than positive. Give the fellow a chance to undo Haney then judge.

This forum has instructors and golfers with opinions they are encourage to freely share, in a world of BS and PC.

I try my best to be fair with everyone, and I am quite sure I have been fair with Sean.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
I like both swings.

No doubt a HUGE upgrade over the end of the Haney era.

Great job, Mr. Foley.

Still some work to do....but you know that.;)
 
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