Mac O'Grady Ball-Striking Stats

[Brian Manzella]

Clarity

I don't really get this statement "Give Tom Bartlett two-weeks notice, and TOM—a guy that has played LESS GOLF in the past 5 years than Mac has in the past two months—whould give a nice little clinic standing right next to Mac."

It means everyone who think Mac is a great ball-striker would be equally wowed by a less than part-time player.

So...if Tom and Mav "hit it" so good why can't they beat David?

David hits it CLOSER.

David hits less bad shots.

Brian what did you see when you played golf with Mac?

I have seen Mac a LOT in person, and I thought he hit it very SOLID. But, so does Mike Finney. So what?

NOT STRAIGHT ENNOUGH. NOT ENOUGH CLUBFACE CONTROL. NOT ENOUGH DISTANCE CONTROL.

Last time I looked, those 3 things were part of ball-striking.

I think we are being defensive right? I know I am.

I am just trying to maker a point, and you are dancing around it.

...I don't think I'm hyping Mac.

The Stats say otherwise.

 

[Dana Dahlquist]

It means everyone who think Mac is a great ball-striker would be equally wowed by a less than part-time player.

So...if Tom and Mav "hit it" so good why can't they beat David?

David hits it CLOSER.

David hits less bad shots.



I have seen Mac a LOT in person, and I thought he hit it very SOLID. But, so does Mike Finney. So what?

NOT STRAIGHT ENNOUGH. NOT ENOUGH CLUBFACE CONTROL. NOT ENOUGH DISTANCE CONTROL.

Last time I looked, those 3 things were part of ball-striking.



I am just trying to maker a point, and you are dancing around it.



The Stats say otherwise.

Im not dancing around anything really. You just put up stats from 1987 and said that really they are not that good. Its not an apples to apples thing your saying. And yes NOT STRAIGHT ENNOUGH. NOT ENOUGH CLUBFACE CONTROL. NOT ENOUGH DISTANCE CONTROL are part of ballstriking. So what does this have to do with David Tom's, o putting stats?
I belive your information is not really first hand when it comes to concluding Mac's swing and ballstriking.
I am just defending a friend and a golfer's work.
Would people argue if he put out books like Butch or Leadbetter? Is that what it takes?

 

[Dana Dahlquist]

Ill just say, and a few of us would agree,Mac is the best ballstriker . . . but an even BETTER teacher.

 

[Brian Manzella]

I'll just say...

I name you 5 BETTER ball-strikers not currently on tour (like Mac)...

Miller Barber
Orville Moody
Lee Trevino
Allen Doyle
Calvin Peete

Except for Doyle, the others are average-to-horrible putters.

 

[Dana Dahlquist]

I name you 5 BETTER ball-strikers not currently on tour (like Mac)...

Miller Barber
Orville Moody
Lee Trevino
Allen Doyle
Calvin Peete

Except for Doyle, the others are average-to-horrible putters.

Yep good to see the post back.
Ahh all hit it real stright but short too????
At least I can agree on these guys, but why are they not on the champions tour? Except doyle.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Dana...

Please elaborate on why you think Mac's stats were so average during this time.

I have a theory, but I'd like yours.

 

[Dana Dahlquist]

Please elaborate on why you think Mac's stats were so average during this time.

I have a theory, but I'd like yours.

I never said average, putting words in my mouth.
well he said he held the flyer's over the green record for many years on tour.
I would say due to not having square grooves like we do now would be the case.
however his stats are very good I think, if his short-game stats were better, like his chipping and pitching of today.He would have won more.
but I don't have any Theory's on this. just what the facts are.
I think also in 1987 he had a cover page in GD best golf swing too.

 

[shortgamer]

Yeah I would bet other wise. I know Toms cant hit a one iron 250 stright up in the air and bend it in both directions and do the same low.Everytime. But who really cares.I played golf with him and quite a few of todays golf pro's including tiger.
Mac is on the top of the list.

By saying top of the list you mean ahead of Tiger? The man who can hit shots that nobody else on the planet can?

 

[Dana Dahlquist]

By saying top of the list you mean ahead of Tiger? The man who can hit shots that nobody else on the planet can?

Yep just about, and alot more on line.

 

[The Return of NAT]

"Return of the NAT" (David Orr), have you got anything to say on these stats?

The ball is different...The playability of the clubs are different..How the he77 can you compare? That's nearly 30 years...Hell even I'm 25- 30 years longer and 20-30 LBS fatter.....I always knew Mac could dirve it far in his day..but he would never claim to be very accurate...Why?...He never plays a relatively straight ball flight it's always curving left to right ...right to left ..high or low...I never understood why in tournament play he just didn't pipe it down the middle...maybe he just didn't have the talent to do that!...Anyway..I agree with Brian..He had a very "tidy and powerful motion".....I don't like the crap he does today...I know..I know his back...no his elbow...no his foot..no his putting..no his pitching...It's Grant's Fault..No ..it's Andy's fault...No it's Dean's Fault....Get it?


BTW.... Can David Toms hit a right handed hybrid left handed and call the ball flight?...Have any of y'all critics seen Mac firsthand or played with him so that your judgements of his ability or lack thereof are accurate rather than heresay?..I've seen Tiger and Mac both in competition..on the range of PGA Tour events close enough to feel the compression into your soul...Tiger best player..hands down...And a very impressive individual...However.... IMO...Mac would beat his ass in breaking windows...Ask my wife...she witnessed/learned first hand from Mac ...Witnessed Tiger first hand in the 1999 US OPEN when I was working with Clearwater....

 

[Brian Manzella]

Oh boy.....

I never said average, putting words in my mouth.

I said AVERAGE.

The stats say average.

I would say due to not having square grooves like we do now would be the case.

"You get a flyer, you get a flyer. So $#@$ing what?" —Ben Hogan

Dana, sorry dude, but controlling flyers is part of golf.

I think also in 1987 he had a cover page in GD best golf swing too.

So did Tom Purtzer, so what?

They say Butch Harmon is the #1 teacher.

 

[The Return of NAT]

They say Butch is the #1 teacher..based on what criteria?...Who the hell are they? They don't even seek to find the best...otherwise the truth would be known...Unfortunately, when I was the Head Instructor at Pine Needles I found out first hand how you get screened in for the Top 100 teacher list...It's how you answer those stupid questionaires from the Magazine and then the "politiking begins"...Absolute bullshit!!!!...I've forgotten more crap then 95% of that list ever realized...Kinda like someone else around here!!!

Anyway...

The only thing over-rated about Mac is his stories!!!

"I never bash anyone"..."Yeah right...MacSon"

 

[The Return of NAT]

Let's start Carvin his mess up!!!

Let's count the # of flaws...Footage from the late 80's early 90's to Seve..



The Count:
#1) Hands too low...requires a plane shift...Why were the hands so low?
#2) Too much Waist Bend requiring bobbing upward through impact? Should there be no vertical forces through impact to accomodate the lengthening of the radius?


NEXT???? Start carvin!!!!

 

[tobell]

You may not be able to compare the actual raw stats from today to those of 20 years ago, but you can certainly compare the rankings relative to his peers. This is why I selected Brett W. for comparison to Mac; both he and Mac were the 4th longest drivers of their day. BW did out rank Mac in most other categories in the relative rankings. In summary, Mac was the 4th longest driver of his day, the 152nd most accurate driver, was 32nd in GIR, 130th in putting and 55th in total driving--all relative to his peers. These relative stats definitely have merit.

Jack Nicklaus stated both publicly and privately that controlling the distance of iron shots was key to successful golf. I've seen Jack limp around hitting 170 yard 4 irons and card a cool 70 in competition. I've also seen Jack absolutely kill it and post the same or better number. Point is Jack was masterful @ working with whatever ball-striking he had, and didn't get too crazed if he had to hobble around a bit. Jack played the game. He didn't mess with parlor tricks like hitting it lefty with the back of a club to prove how incredibly talented he was, the way he played was enough. Jack played, Mac suffered; Jack said golf is a game, Mac thinks it’s a science. Perspective is everything. Control the perspective and you control the discourse; accept the perspective that golf is science then Mac is the Jack Nicklaus of golf.

Mac 1987:
Driving Distance 278.2 4th
Driving Accuracy Percentage: 59.9% 152nd
Greens in Regulation Pct.: 68.3% 32nd
Putting Average: 1.819 130th
Total Driving: 156 55th

 

[bantamben2]

I have seen mac hit shots that amazed me he definately hits the ball pure and has an amazing ability to control the shape and trajectory of the ball. His credit as being a great ballstriker has come from his peers many tour pros have said how good he is. Why dont his stats show it why hasnt he won more tournaments, i dont know i know that there is alot more to the game then hitting it great look at sergio that guy should win the order of merrit every year and 2 or 3 tournaments over here and should have about 3 majors by now but he hasnt won doesnt mean hes not a good ball striker just doesnt get it done.

 

[denny1953]

The ball is different...The playability of the clubs are different..How the he77 can you compare? That's nearly 30 years...Hell even I'm 25- 30 years longer and 20-30 LBS fatter.....I always knew Mac could dirve it far in his day..but he would never claim to be very accurate...Why?...He never plays a relatively straight ball flight it's always curving left to right ...right to left ..high or low...I never understood why in tournament play he just didn't pipe it down the middle...maybe he just didn't have the talent to do that!...Anyway..I agree with Brian..He had a very "tidy and powerful motion".....I don't like the crap he does today...I know..I know his back...no his elbow...no his foot..no his putting..no his pitching...It's Grant's Fault..No ..it's Andy's fault...No it's Dean's Fault....Get it?


BTW.... Can David Toms hit a right handed hybrid left handed and call the ball flight?...Have any of y'all critics seen Mac firsthand or played with him so that your judgements of his ability or lack thereof are accurate rather than heresay?..I've seen Tiger and Mac both in competition..on the range of PGA Tour events close enough to feel the compression into your soul...Tiger

"I don't like the crap he does today" Could you explain?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Here's what everyone is missing:

Can Mac strike a golf ball well? Yup.
Can mike finney and tom barlett? Yup.
Can others LIKE finney & tom? Yup.

What brian is trying to say is that it doesn't make you hit it ANY CLOSER even if you "strike it" better

 

[birdie_man]

I always knew Mac could dirve it far in his day..but he would never claim to be very accurate

Kkkk....wouldn't you have to be pretty accurate to be legitimately known as one of the best ballstrikers ever?

I mean I know we can prolly get into a discussion about the term "ballstriker" etc.....but to me you have to be able to control the golf ball to be a ballstriker. Control being knowing where the ball winds up, no?

....

BTW I have even heard ppl group him in the same category as Hogan, Nelson, etc. etc. those guys.

Thems stats above tho.....I dunno man. It at the least needs an explaination.

BTW.... Can David Toms hit a right handed hybrid left handed and call the ball flight?...Have any of y'all critics seen Mac firsthand or played with him so that your judgements of his ability or lack thereof are accurate rather than heresay?..I've seen Tiger and Mac both in competition..on the range of PGA Tour events close enough to feel the compression into your soul...Tiger best player..hands down...And a very impressive individual...However.... IMO...Mac would beat his ass in breaking windows...Ask my wife...she witnessed/learned first hand from Mac ...Witnessed Tiger first hand in the 1999 US OPEN when I was working with Clearwater....

KK so you know way more about the dude than a lot of ppl....

So what then would you say accounts for these so-so (if you are going by "one of the greatest ever" title) stats?

 

[David Alford]

Those swing "faults" are not faults. They are integral to Mac's model. There are specific reasons for the low hands. If you vary from this, you now have another type of swing model. Mac's model DOES work.

Contrary to what Tongzilla may think, I can do his swing quite well. When I submitted my early set swing video, I said it would be an early set swing on steroids (meaning more lag and maybe a little more speed), I didn't say I would try to demo Mac's exact model 100%.

I haven't tried this model in about 6 months & went out today & hit shots that were about as good as you can get. Trust me, it DOES work. It's just not my favorite swing. However, it is one of the few valid swing models out there.

When I have criticized the "early set swing" in the past on one or two occassions, I was a bit harsh.

I'm trying to tell it as it is...I'm not a Mac fan, but I will defend that model to a degree. The sequence criticized above appears to be perfect implementation.

Still, keep in mind Mac O'grady didn't invent the early set model. However, he did progress it.

 

[The Return of NAT]

Those swing "faults" are not faults. They are integral to Mac's model. There are specific reasons for the low hands. If you vary from this, you now have another type of swing model. Mac's model DOES work...

No kidding???

To some they are...So why are his hands so low?...

Clues: Radius of Gyration, Gyroscopic Progression, Infrapersonal Space, Managing the Moment of Inertia, Controlling Arc Size in the Backstroke, Stabilizing Centers of Rotation ...

Oh yeah I forgot this "psycho babble" means nothing to most...


I'm still waiting to hear the "critique of his motion"...since he's only a "never has been" ...after all statistics are for losers and he has only 2 PGA Tour wins...So he just wasn't as good as the hype...Right!!!


David Alford...I know you got talent and nothing to prove to anyone...I cannot believe you gave a compliment..LOL...about the "perfect implementation" of the early set model...That was nice and not harsh at all!!!