Manzilla/Shields..Ball position?

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b90jos

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What's your take on ball position? Nicklaus says left heel(i think thats why his short game wasn't great?)... Harmon says left heart(just change width of stance).. and some use the three ball position and change the width of your stance accordingly. I've been doing the 3 ball position..but sometimes I position the ball too far back. I'm just looking for consistency.

HAHA and my instructor says.. "start with the wedge at the middle, and move the ball closer to your left heel as the clubs get longer.. how much longer your club is, is how much your going to move it forward.." So.. my 9 iron is what? .25 inch longer than wedge.. same with 8..blah...etc.. I'm stumped.
 
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softconsult

New
Here you go. I clipped at some point on the forum.
It's from Brian on ball position.

The Golfing Machine is VERY VAGUE on Ball Position.

Then, there are the kooks that think it should move A LOT from club to club.

I used to prefer one pretty forward ball position for my better players.

It tended to work well for snap releases.

Now days, I customize for all students, but I use this basic idea:

LW up to the 6-iron, club in the middle of the feet to VERY SLIGHTLY forward, ball left of that—obviously.

5-iron up to 3-iron, club VERY SLIGHTLY forward of middle to slightly forward, ball left of that.

Ball off of left heel for driver with an orthodox wide driver stance.

Fairway woods and hybrids between the long irons and Driver.

YOU SHOULD BE SWINGING ACROSS THE LEFT LEG, so now you can have "normal" ball position.
 
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SteveT

Guest
Ball position is highly individualistic and is dependent on body height and build. A shorter golfer will most likely have different ball positions than a taller golfer due to sheer geometry. A stout golfer will be different from a slim golfer .. and so on.

I'm 6'3" and I use a 3+" tee off the middle of my lead foot for my fade driver, but I have a wider stance than most. A narrower stance would change my body swing geometry and the ball position. For my draw driver, I tee it up off my lead heel and lower tee height. Seems to work best for me.

For iron shots, I use a variety of ball positions depending on the club, ground conditions, wind, shot trajectory/shape ... and some of the ball positions can be quite contradictory to orthodoxy ... but it sure makes for fun to see what's going to happen ...:D

Perhaps optimal ball position is something one must find through trial and error until you have isolated a good shot pattern. Unfortunately, sometimes I must change my normal ball position because something has gone koo-koo with my driver swing and I'm force to make adjustments ... that makes for an interesting round of golf. Now that I understand the D-plane, my adjustments will be more accurate. Thanks, Kobylinski et al ....:)
 
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ekennedy

New
Isn't if funny that a game that has been played for generations, there is still no "consensus" on ball position?

Clearly there are limitless possibilities from forward of the left foot for a driver with a long tee, to behind the right for a bump-and-run shot. I loved Brian's video on sand shots...it kind of blew my mind. He wanted to get his student to hit more forward in the sand so he stood ahead of him and to the left. The guy pelted Brian with sand, but it got him to hit a spot that was 6 or 7 inches farther forward in his stance. Great stuff.

I remember watching Hale Irwin hit balls (one of the best iron players of all time) and it seemed like he played the ball back of center with most of his irons. I guess he had a ton of carry and tumble because his ball rarely left the flag.
 
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chipingguru

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no need for a one size fits all ball position. Experiment and find where you hit it the best from. Although with driver too far back would not be optimal IMO and could cause loss of power.
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
There are so many factors in ball position it isnt even funny. Impossible to have a consensus. What kind of shot do you want to play? Where is your low point? How wide or narrow is your swing? Any carry? Closed or open stance?
Etc etc...
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Kevin Shields said:
There are so many factors in ball position it isnt even funny. Impossible to have a consensus. What kind of shot do you want to play? Where is your low point? How wide or narrow is your swing? Any carry? Closed or open stance?
Etc etc...
Click to expand...

Angle of attack vs hsp vs vsp vs shot shape vs hip slide vs JUMP vs right shoulder location...




And for the millionth time, the "geometry of the circle" is not even close. :rolleyes:
 
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b90jos

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Brian Manzella said:
Angle of attack vs hsp vs vsp vs shot shape vs hip slide vs JUMP vs right shoulder location...




And for the millionth time, the "geometry of the circle" is not even close. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Ok so basically.. From what I understand from Mr. Shields and you.. it depends on my phsyical build.. and my style of swing..

The more time I spend on here the more i'm starting think about my instructors teaching... but i'll give him 3 more months lol.
 
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b90jos

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about 4 months ago..i was hitting the ball so beautifully..it brought tears to my eyes..

ever since ive got this instructor.. i swear around the course like tiger
 
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b90jos

New
My instructor is this guy named Tom Williams. He's been teaching since the 1960's. I think he has changed my game. He just gives me vague answers on ball position and...everything else..
 
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b90jos

New
It was free lessons..so I didn't think it could hurt me. He's a PGA Professional.. He gives me endless of free buckets of balls. So i take his lessons to not be rude.
 
Tom Losinger

Tom Losinger

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A few years ago I went on a Brian Manzella type quest (In reality not quite as ambitious, but still I did a little traveling and inquiring.) for information with ball position being one of my main questions. Here are some of the conclusions.
1. It depends.:):(:confused::eek:
2. It is better to relate ball position to anatomy above the bottom of the grip....wrists, lead shoulder, etc....not the feet.
3. Ball position will effect motion.
4. Ball position can accommodate motion.
5. When I visited Ping I asked them (as we were watching the Ping Man hit drivers) what happens if they moved the ball 1" back in the stance. The ball flew 15.7 yards to the right. So even though the geometry of the circle may not be even close... I think it still has some merit.
6. I think that one of the best things about TrackMan and their observations is that ball position is extremely important and it is fairly easy to change the numbers by adjusting ball position.
Now on to the confusing part...
7. When I asked the Ping Man operator how far they move the ball from driver to wedge he said two inches.
8. When I asked the Callaway engineer he said 7 inches.
9. When I asked Tom Stites at Nike, he wouldn't tell me except that "ball position is a really big deal."

So....ball position was one of the topics that I was hoping would be addressed at the anti-summit and I would love to see more really good science (Maybe using a ball hitting machine as the model.) on this topic. (Project 1.68?) At least then you could establish some base lines to make adjustments.

Maybe we could have the science of the ball hitting machines vs the art of the people hitting machines. :D
Thanks!
 
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spmurph

New
Quick question on ball position..

Why might a forward ball position work better for a high handicapper? Although I can't cite sources off the top of my head, I've heard lots of instruction advocate moving the ball back for high handicappers.
 
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