Martin Kaymer

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niblick1

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mgranato said:
I was never even #1 in the hollar, but I've chased that evil temptress, the crack of golf on a few occasions. +6 on a professional setup is one thing. How 'bout going +6 in a small potatoes local deal and being 10 shots behind a guy who plays the ball flight you left for the draw.:mad:



When you play a fade and everyone else plays a draw, you get angry.

When you get angry, you go work on a draw.

When you go work on a draw, accidental hooks happen.

When accidental hooks happen, you hit a rough patch.

When you hit a rough patch, people think you suck.

When people think you suck, people what to see how bad you suck.

And when people want to see how bad you suck, you end up in the leftside ditch.

Don't wind up in the leftside ditch.

Get rid of that draw if you're a fader.
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Frickin' great. When you and Kevin open the Boris The Russian Golf Academy, sign me up.
 
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Kevin Shields

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niblick1 said:
On the subject of achieving vs talent Pavin had one more US Open than Snead and Strange had twice as many as Pavin. Can a player who won 80 plus times be an underachiever? And a guy who hit a 5-wood from 210 won the US Open.
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Sure, a guy who's won a thousand times can over achieve. For a guy who couldn't play, went broke and fought an uncontrolled hook you don't think he over achieved?? Did anone playing the Tour in the early 40s see that coming?
 
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Kevin Shields

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OLIVER1 said:
I guess to figure it out we'd need quotes from their contemporaries about their max potential. And what defines greatness? Major wins, I suppose.
Ben Hogan? Whew. I bet somewhere in chilly Poland there's a howl coming out of Dariusz's house that's rattling windows in the Ukraine!!
Gary Player I can see given what I've heard about him
Underachievers? Colin Montgomerie, perhaps. Always thought Seve should have snaffled a couple more majors. Hard to call for many Europeans as they were locked out of 3 of the 4 majors for so long and maybe could have gone on to great things if they were given the chance.
I'm sure there's a few American lads from the 1970s - Johnny Miller, maybe?
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I think a lot of players would say Monty over achieved. Not a classic swing, not a blue chip collegian, considered another line of work. I personally think he massively over achieved.

Ernie Els and Tom Weiskof are a couple of the biggest under achievers I can think of.
 
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niblick1

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Kevin Shields said:
Did anone playing the Tour in the early 40s see that coming?
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Nope, no way.

I've watched Hogan putt in the old clips. His putting was definitely marginal enough to qualify as an on over-achiever. He was still competitive in his later years with a bad case of the yips. Maybe he was lucky to be putting when greens ran an "8" or there would be no hogan swing theorists fifty years later.

Just kidding about Snead (but imagine if he had putted like Jack)...
 
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johnnymarlboro

johnnymarlboro

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As far as majors, I think definitely Johnny Miller, like Oliver said. I gotta throw Fred Couples, and DL III on that list too. 60 Tour wins between those 3, but I feel like they should have alot more majors. And despite all his wins and impending hall of fame status, I gotta go with Phil and his 5 US Open runner ups.
 
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OLIVER1

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Kevin Shields said:
I think a lot of players would say Monty over achieved. Not a classic swing, not a blue chip collegian, considered another line of work. I personally think he massively over achieved.

Ernie Els and Tom Weiskof are a couple of the biggest under achievers I can think of.
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In point of fact, Monty did attend a U.S school and his father was the secretary at Royal Troon; moreover, have you ever heard a Scotsman speak in such refinely clipped English! No, Mme Doubtfire had no issues there!. If he weren't so Anti-American and played more here, I'm pretty sure he'd have a PGA or US Open to his name.
Els is a great call, and, in another non-Tiger era, he's have cleaned house. Weiskopf I'm not familiar with.
Do we consider externalities (discrimination, accidents, no cash, etc.) as well as innate potential?
Good call on DLIII there, JohnnyMarlboro. Big underachiever
Tony Jacklin?
 
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niblick1

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There are so many great ball strikers with putting or short games issues, but in some ways the Ballesteros situation seems more tragic. A brilliant scorer who so totally lost the ability to hit the ball in the same zip code with longer clubs. Trackman and a decent coach and he wins 3-4 more majors.

Add Sergio to the Under list.
 
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wulsy

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I was an over achiever who became an under achiever, so I have a go a the definition:

Over achiever: beats players in tournaments who are more skilled/have better technique/get clearly better results in non-tournament settings.

Under achiever: opposite of above, BUT also someone who has produced good results in every setting in the past but at some point fails to be able to produce these results.
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Yeah, ir right. Prob is a cruel thread. They are just opinions. I'm sure there plenty of people from my area who will stand in line to name me under achiever of the century. I know what it's like to not live up to expectations.

So I like wulsys definition.....I am not trying to be an over achiever. I like that role better:)
 
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