Mike's latest video on the grip
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Brian Manzella
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My post should have "SIMPLY."
Done in by the autoCorrect!
Done in by the autoCorrect!
Dariusz J.
New member
Some biokinetic rules that may be of help:
- the motion of the biggest RoM is flexion (60* to 25-30* comparing to deviation RoM), thus, the more both wrists can act paralelly (think anti-anatomical position or while praying or clapping hands) the better for the freedom of the motion and the worse for dealing with timing;
- the more hands are split from each other, the more both wrists can act because the elbow joints' RoM is being involved.
Maybe you may guess while being ignorant in the branch. The question belongs to the easiest ones.
Cheers
Dariusz J.
New member
More: why can one observe (even in Hogan's action) that grip loosens (goes from a biokinetic position to the anti-anatomical position in the impact zone) ? Because everyone wants to hit it as hard as possible. It's subconscious reaction. Worse ballstrikers as Mickelson or Singh subconsciously take off their rear hands off the grip to ease the flow of power. Mehlhorn, Vardon, Ouimet, Cotton prefered to cup their lead wrist just after impact because it would not be against accuracy. And not so long ago it was cursed (it is still somewhere) because it was called FLIPPING. What a joke.
Cheers
magicmarker
New
Mickelson is naturally right-handed so there may be more to him doing that. What are the pros and cons of the different grips? Or does it depend too much on whether the wrists are acting parallely?
Dariusz J.
New member
I would not believe handedness matters here.
That is why it is rather unimaginable to perform the Bio-K grip with interlock or ten finger.
For instance, interlock grip is deep in nature. Our subconscious mind looks always for security and stabilization in order to exclude any uncertainity. Natural limitations bring the feeling of security. The only one possibility for a golfer using interlock grip is put the pinky as deep as possible till the end - with such a position it is hardly possible to bring the RH on top of the grip without unnecessary tensions. Usually, the RH grip is very strong and for 100% it is not possible to merge a weak RH with a strong LH.
That is why it is rather unimaginable to perform the Bio-K grip with interlock.
If pros and cons of the three types. I'd say the best is Hogan's version of Vardon grip.
Cheers
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It's Vardon not Vadon, it's Hogan's (version) not Hogan's (verion). Your welcome. Let me guess you were in a hurry.
Not too sure what you're saying here. Is the right hand grip loosening good or bad in your opinion? Do you mean Mickelson and Singh "ease the flow of power" and therefore have more power than if they were to hold on more with their right hand? Are Mickelson and Singh worse ballstrikers because of loosening their right hand?
Dariusz J.
New member
It's Vardon not Vadon, it's Hogan's (version) not Hogan's (verion). Your welcome. Let me guess you were in a hurry.
Thanks for correcting me.
Yes, of course IMHO.
Cheers
Please clarify your "yes"--there were 3 questions.
You stated earlier that even Hogan loosened his grip past impact and he used a strongish left hand and weakish right with the overlap grip. I have a tendency to do the same thing with my right hand, what is different in the "biokinetic" grip that you reference?
Dariusz J.
New member
My "yes" regarded your two last questions. As per the first one - I don't think it's bad or good - it's just natural reaction to physics.
Merging a strongish left hand and weakish right one (as per the Bio-K grip concept) guarantees merging lead wrist deviation with rear wrist flexion which means merging two actions with very different RoMs - while optimal for "ease the flow of power" is merging both wrist flexions. Thus, setting of wrists/hands will trend to convert to the latter in a dynamic action where one wants to hit as hard as possible (that's why even Hogan's grip loosened entering impact which is well documented on photos).
Cheers
drewyallop
New
From my knowledge of anatomy and biomechanics, I understand that having a strongish left hand grip results in the left wrist more inclined to radial and ulnar deviate, also known as cocking and uncocking in golf terms, than flexing and extending.
Flexion and extension of the right wrist is much greater than radial and ulnar deviation range of motion of the left wrist which could cause some decrease in efficiency during the release of the club.
Dariusz J.
New member
Picture is worth a 1000 words, as they say (interesting part starts at 3:24):
Movements of the Fingers, Thumb, and Wrist - YouTube
and also this:
Ben Hogan : The Biokinetical Grip - YouTube
Very good explanation except I wouldn't say decrease in efficiency, rather decrease in flow of power.
Cheers
Cheers
Dariusz J.
New member
Because you prolly never paid attention to the big picture and follow stereotypists' opinion. The strength/weakness of the grip depends not only on how pronated/supinated thewrist is but also on its deviation vector. Higher hands at setup = more ulnarily deviated lead wrist (just as Hogan had) optically weakens the grip a lot and viceversa.
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birly-shirly
New
Dariusz - you're not the only person I've heard say that, and in general, not just with respect to Hogan's grip.
Nevertheless, I'm not sure I've ever really understood the argument. Left thumb on top of the shaft is still on top of the shaft regardless of high or low hands. And the benchmarks that I use in checking my own grip don't appear to me to move much relative to high or low hands at address.
I do think there are dangers in copying someone else's grip slavishly - in terms of direction of "Vs", or knuckles, or whatever - and I suspect that the size of your hands will have an effect on how a "neutral" grip might look - but that's another issue.
What do you think people are looking at that changes from high to low hands and makes the "strength" of the grip appear altered?
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