Minimal offset irons, high launch....possible?

[Short Game Frankie]

Hey guys,
I had a question about a potential new set of irons for me. I currently play Titleist 681's and they are a great set of irons. When I was playing twice a week and practicing twice a week, I was shooting in the mid 70's with my best round of all time being 71 but my situation has changed and I only play about 1-2 times a month and practice usually isn't possible and I am now shooting in the low to mid 80's, usually breaking 85. I draw the ball and my miss is a hook, even with practically zero offset and my trajectory is low to mid. I am looking for a new set of irons to try and take advantage of some new technology. I want a minimal offset iron that launches the ball high. I did try the Cobra Pro CB's which seemed on paper to be everything I wanted in a set. The feel of these clubs were clunky, not buttery like the 681's. When I say minimal offset, I mean minimal. The Titleist 681 set has .080 offset through out the set, not progressive. I am afraid that if I buy a new set of irons that my draw will turn into a hook and my miss will turn into a snapper. I've been told to play with a weaker grip but I used to be a great golfer without manipulating the core I have established. I don't know if I provided enough background to get some solid answers but any recommendations you can make for me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much, with all the golf knowledge on this forum I am eager to see what feedback I get.

 

[greenfree]

Why not tweak your existing irons, loft/lie, change shafts etc. Those are really nice irons. I play 1965 Hagen's and like Donnie Brasco said "forget about it"

 

[Short Game Frankie]

you're right, they have the most solid feel but I could benefit from a higher ball flight......what type of tweaks to lofts and lies can be made to help me launch the ball higher? I know that high launch shafts may be one option but is it the best option? Is a new set all together with minimal offset and higher launch the answer? I just don't know.....

 

[greenfree]

you're right, they have the most solid feel but I could benefit from a higher ball flight......what type of tweaks to lofts and lies can be made to help me launch the ball higher? I know that high launch shafts may be one option but is it the best option? Is a new set all together with minimal offset and higher launch the answer? I just don't know.....

Find a good clubmaker/fitter and see what they recommend. My first choice would be to keep those irons and tweak them, and my second choice would be my first choice...

 

[birly-shirly]

Short Game Frankie

If you like your current irons, maybe a hybrid/lofted fw or two replacing the longer irons is all you need. If you were only hitting 5 - wedge in your current set, would you still be worried about the trajectory?

If yes, then I'd personally stay away from trying to tweak or customise your current clubs - but if you'd be happy buying a used set, then I'd try to find a set of Maxfli revolutions as they sound right up your street. Sets up like a nice blade - minimal offset, great soft-feeling irons but IMOP quite forgiving. There's a bit of bounce in the sole and a soft, rather than razor-sharp leading edge - both of which are probably departures from your 681s, but maybe just what you're looking for now.

 

[softconsult]

I suspect that your hit it higher goal is relative to say 7 iron through 4 iron.
681 is a demanding blade. Maybe too demanding for someone playing twice
a month. Most likely this height issue is simply that you are not able to practice.
A little more offset is not going to be the magic cure and it's likely to come with
a wide soled cavity backed clubhead that you aren't going to like looking at.
Furthermore, the manufacturer will likely have made the lofts stronger to offset
the clubs tendency to launch higher.

If you want the same Titleist feel consider the 695CB's. I played them
for a couple of years. 695's are one degree stronger to offset the cavity back
higher launch. This year on a whim, I bought a set of 735CM's on e-Bay for like $200.
These are a blended set. Blades through 8 iron and then cavity backs, but with same
lofts as Titleist blades.

 

[rogerdodger]

shaft change is what you are looking for. Get fit with trackman, you will find the best shaft to get the ball higher without losing it left.

 

[birly-shirly]

can a shaft change deliver more dynamic loft without a more closed clubface?

I've got no experience of clubfitting, so not arguing either way - but the way I visualise the additional loft being provided would go hand in hand with a more rotated clubface. I'm assuming steel shafts in both instances btw - I guess all bets are off if you're looking at graphite.

 

[mgranato]

If feel is a premium, I have but one recommendation – Miura Golf Inc.

These are about as minimal as it gets in a CB. The feel/quality is second to none.

 

[rogerdodger]

can a shaft change deliver more dynamic loft without a more closed clubface?

I've got no experience of clubfitting, so not arguing either way - but the way I visualise the additional loft being provided would go hand in hand with a more rotated clubface. I'm assuming steel shafts in both instances btw - I guess all bets are off if you're looking at graphite.

Depending on where on the shaft the flex occurs, yes. Proper fitting of the shaft will reflect where the load occurs and the resulting action during release. Flex point is pretty important in my experience. You can increase dynamic loft by moving the flex point closer to the head, if the shaft has the proper stiffness, the shaft alone will not cause hooking. Example, I can hit a s300 dynamic gold shaft higher than a project x regular shaft due to the flex point. I think the shaft is more important than the club head as far as how high the ball launches. I also am relying on my personal experience and am not claiming these are scientific observations. A good clubfitting usually finds the shaft first, and then focuses on clubhead. At least that is what I have experienced.

 

[birly-shirly]

I'm with you now. I was probably confused before - I was thinking that the effects of shaft flex point would mirror offset in delivering both greater loft and more rotation. Thinking again about it and your explanation - the 2 are different. Offset slightly delays delivery of the clubhead until the hands have moved further, and rotated further, on their arc - which helps close the face, but it's the fact that the club's CoG is moved rearward that helps the launch angle.

Moving the shaft flex point lower will shorten the radius of the shaft flex and increase loft (unless of course you're an Advanced Ball Striker and making contact with a stressed shaft!) - but without delaying impact relative to the hands, so there's no additional rotation.

Thanks for the explanation.

That's interesting too about the Project X ballflight. I always thought S300s were the classic low-trajectory shaft. Maybe a lower launch shaft is what's needed to keep modern sole-weighted (and offset!) heads from ballooning the ball.

 

[Frans@France]

..... A good clubfitting usually finds the shaft first, and then focuses on clubhead. At least that is what I have experienced.

I can show you trackman data where the same shaft and different head creates serious difference in shot consistancy, however I can show exactly the same with the same head and different shafts.

It's always about the combination head/shaft AND the golfer. In fact I can even show you data with the same shaft AND head but changes in grips size.....

 

[fmlutz]

shaft change

I agree with the shaft change. I was hitting the ball too high with rifles (not Project X) and changed to DG S300. The change in ball flight came down instantly with not loss of control. I was also told that the DG S300 was low launch. I don't really know but it worked for me. Maybe you should try the rifles and see what happens. I know they feel different to me. I think the rifles are butt stiff and the DGs are tip stiff.

Mike

 

[Frans@France]

...I want a minimal offset iron that launches the ball high.....

The solution always depends on your response (your swing) towards the golfclub, but one nice test is to counterweight you current club. Take a nice big screw and place it in the vent-hole of the grip. Both counterweighted or light weight clubs are (in general) creating higher ball flights.

 

[niblick1]

I went the super-fancy custom route a couple years ago, and I think AP-2s are the way to go now (or a similar design from a competitor). Still plenty of feel, minimal offset, look reasonable, launch high, play long, and plenty of forgiveness. Everyone's swing is different, but I'd think seriously about KBS shafts with them, too.I had project x before, and the KBS feel so much smoother/softer to me even though I have a slightly firmer flex.

Love the clubs. I've probably talked with 8-9 people in the past year who thought they were by a large margin the best irons they had played with, mostly lower or low-mid handicap people switching.

 

[Burner]

First things first!!!!!!!!!!

Consistently low ball flight is usually associated with consistent delofting of the club at impact.

Tackle the problem at source and play your ball a little further forward.

Could save you a mental and fiscal fortune.

 

[westy]

graphite.

Consult Trackman.
Left = Shut face.
R9 with regular motore is super easy to hit and fun to play.
Ballspeed dictates shaft flex, a good graphite shaft can go a long ways toward flight control.

 

[Short Game Frankie]

Consistently low ball flight is usually associated with consistent delofting of the club at impact.

Tackle the problem at source and play your ball a little further forward.

Could save you a mental and fiscal fortune.

I have tried to play the ball a bit further up in my stance but I am not as consistant as I would like to be, sometimes it only makes me hook it more. When I play the ball a bit more forward and focus on hitting the inside/rear of the ball, I will either draw the ball at my target perfectly or push it to the right which is unacceptable. I can't play golf with a 2 sided miss. I am very grateful for everyone's input. Just to try to focus more on the Indian and not the arrows - - assuming I HAD to play with the irons I have and knowing that I was a pretty good player at one time, what swing thoughts, grip changes, etc would you all recommend? Does a low right shoulder promote a draw? Should I stand closer to the ball so I'm not coming as much from the inside? So I maybe stand a bit taller at address? I am not a very technical person, I've never taken a lesson so I am a bit of a swing novice when it comes to breaking swings down like you guys do (very well I might add) - thanks guys

 

[jpeck]

Since you have a great set of irons I suggest you keep them as is. You know you can play good golf with that set, and I predict if you dump them or alter them you'll regret it later. If you must tweak them, it may be a good idea to buy a single matching iron to experiment on first, maybe an ex-demo club would do.

If you are going to get fitted, it should be a full, custom, Trackman fitting. To do otherwise is a waste of time and effort, false economy, and probably an act akin to pissing into the wind.

Otherwise, you might try hitting down on the ball a bit more, and see what that does to your ball flight.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I can hit a s300 dynamic gold shaft higher than a project x regular shaft due to the flex point.

no, it's simply due to the design of the shaft itself; also i'd bet that on a launch monitor the project x would launch higher but not spin as much thus your perceived lower ball flight is simply a result of using a project x shaft..higher initial launch with a flatter overall flight.