Must Read for Hogan Fans

Status
Not open for further replies.
You have it?

What's it talk about?

What's this?:

"His concept of the 'moving wall' is worth the price of the book alone."
 
It comes out Sept. 29.

I just read the publisher's review. It looked really intriguing. I don't know anything that goes beyond the scope of what is on the link I posted.
 
I don't like to prejudge a book before it's released...but if it's a rehash of John Schlee's thoughts, it won't help, it will hurt...

John Schlee didn't understand Hogan's swing. If he did, he would have been able to swing something like Hogan. And so would this author.
 
Biffer said:
Also: http://www.thesecretofhogansswing.com/Home_Page.html

It's always interesting to read other's accounts of Hogan's swing, but as yet I haven't seen one that does it justice. ;)


Try John Andrisani's "The Hogan Way" - where BTW he flat out destroys the "flat left wrist at the top"...He talks about ALL the Hogan "secrets" and is no minor contributor to golf mechanics. He says only a few things, but they are key: most significant is his description of what MA and many of us now call "the compound pivot" and how you can NOT swing over the top if your hips move to the left before they turn. And how that hip motion, just like MA, IS the bottom line of power in the swing.

Mike Dunaway talked of "slamming the door" of the right hip into the ball while turning on the left hip; Andrisani says the same thing for Hogan in different words.

A really good read.
 
I thought according to MA the secret of his power was to unhinge the hands and throw the club from the top. Don't really understand that concept, seems to me it would create throwaway, I guess you'd also have to bend the wrist on the takeaway, so that you could be throwing to a flat left wrist.
 
Andrisani's book is the best of the existing lot on Hogan.

However, IMO, you won't be able to recreate Hogan's swing from it. There is some good stuff regarding Hogan's practice routine.
 
Perfect Impact said:
Mike Dunaway talked of "slamming the door" of the right hip into the ball while turning on the left hip; Andrisani says the same thing for Hogan in different words.

Perfect Impact,

Can you say this in different words, not so sure I understand.

Thanks,

Matt
 
Last edited:
The word "secret" is used a lot in golf, by magazine editors to sell magazines, by gurus to sell books and instruction, and by intelligent people who realize that the word refers to something you don't know yet; it could be common knowledge to someone else, but not you. Anything I know and you don't is a secret.

Andrisani refers to SEVERAL Hogan secrets. Mike Austin's instruction also is "full of secrets."

Austin declared, as did Hogan, that THE secret to power and clubhead speed is the the [compound] pivot: "the faster I want the club to move, the faster I pivot."

The hands are holders on only, BUT the right ARM, in all procedures having any real power, is used to ASSIST THE PIVOT FOR BRINGING THE HANDLE END of the club around faster than would be the case if it didn't help. And that is not done with the wrists or hands but with the right ELBOW, used in the same way as when you throw something, i.e., by STRAIGHTENING - a function of the triceps.

Besides this, and while I have no research, only common sense to tell me, since the hands are above your head at the top and the move down to your lap for impact, IT SEEMS THE PECS ASSIST to chop the arms DOWNward for the downswing, as well as for the pivot to drive them downplane.

Descriptions of what someone does need to include what is exerted, but how much anyone actually exerts, and whether he even EXPERIENCES that, is entirely subjective! You can't see what I exert, nor when; but if I am describing to someone what I am doing, I could use the words chop, pull, push, turn, yank, throw, toss, fling, or anything of the sort, all of which would be an ATTEMPT to communicate. But as we know, communicating golf is not easy.

Take this situation of the woman going to a lawyer because she wanted a divorce. Lawyer: "Do you have grounds?" Woman: "yes, we own about 12 acres behind the house." Lawyer, trying another tack: "Well, let me ask you this instead: does he beat you up?" Woman: "O no, I always am up by 5:30 and he isn't up until 7 or so." Lawyer, really frustrated: "Well, WHY DO YOU WANT A DIVORCE?" Woman: "We have trouble communicating!".

So all of the secrets are the things Hogan, Austin, anyone, says he does that are key: and in point of fact, they agree.

Austin's "throw" is INITIATED at the top of his swing IN HIS NERVES, IN THE EXERTIONS he initiates there, but OTHER exertions in the pivot and arms cause the hands to move SO FAST that there is no loss of lag whatsoever for a long time into the downswing, as evidenced by pictures SHOWING the clubhead a long ways behind the hands even when his hands are at his right pocket. Same with Hogan who says he wished he had more hands. But hands are where he FELT what he did with his BODY to get them there.

Passing on golf instruction involves KNOWING HOW TO COMMUNICATE TO THAT PARTICULAR PERSON IN FRONT OF YOU what you are trying for that person to grasp. Teaching golf is a UNIVERSE APART from "knowing what to do yourself" for that reason. It is about 1) knowing what is right, and 2) communicating it SO AS TO ENABLE the pupil.

I heard a 10 year old yesterday on NPR radio playing a Haydn piano sonata. She was a Chinese American child prodigy: UNBELIEVABLE what she could do. How perfectly she played it, both as concerns the technical accuracy AND THE MUSICIANSHIP - the expression, the nuance, the vitality, the disciplined spirit (adherence to beat and appropriate percussive articulation--another way of explaining how she "pronounced" the phrasing correctly in the same way as when we SPEAK, we automatically stress the right syllables in our words and use the exact amount of less stress on the weaker ones). I mention this because HER INTUITIVE GIFTS WERE EXTRAORDINARY - astounding, actually.

The same thing is possible in golf talent, teaching talent, mathematical talent (I am talking about intuitive grasp), etc.

Of course talking about this isn't going to help anyone really get the golf swing much better unless they seek KNOWLEDGE, and unless somehow they GRASP THE ESSENTIALS. Which boils down to "What am I supposed to do with the golf club?"

Get that, and trial and error with some guidance will get the rest.

It is obvious when you see youngsters swing a club - some already "grasp" the concept of throw, "centrifugal force," and rotation.

As for Dunaway, the slamming of the door is what Hogan and Austin and all good golfers do: it is that when the hips have finished their LEFTWARD SLIDE WITHOUT TURN FIRST, and the shoulders have NOT turned as the shoulders, arms, hands, and club come DOWN plane towards the target line, THEN THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE BODY, THE HANDS, THE HIPS, etc., all PIVOT AROUND THE LEFT HIP POSTED ON THE LEFT LEG as though a piano hinge ran up the left leg through the left shoulder and the entire body swings AROUND THAT HINGE counter clockwise into the ball. A door slamming around the hinge at the side - NOT a revolving door rotating around an axis in the center.
 
One more point: "flat left wrist": Hogan's was not flat at the top. Austin's was bowed. Couples' is cupped. Daly's is cupped. Andrisani says that one of Hogan's SECRETS WAS THE CUP in his wrist in that it gave him MORE room for "c0cking his wrists" than otherwise. And that such an accommodation was the reason for his extreme amount of lag. Nor do any of these men "try to keep the wrist flat" through impact: actually in a freeze frame you probably will find that the longest hitters allow their wrists to fold - to REcup after impact; the classic picture of Hogan ALWAYS SHOWS HIS LEFT WRIST FULLY BENT BACKWARDS at the end of his follow through - a position that would NOT occur had he held the wrist FROM re-cupping.

Flat in such swings is a position through which the club/arm/hand passes - and is nothing more than the fact that the clubshaft catches up to the left arm during impact or slightly after...and then continues like a pendulum from its momentum and passes the left arm. The arms ROTATE, BUT AFTER that bend has already begun.
 
Perfect Impact said:
The hands are holders on only, BUT the right ARM, in all procedures having any real power, is used to ASSIST THE PIVOT FOR BRINGING THE HANDLE END of the club around faster than would be the case if it didn't help. And that is not done with the wrists or hands but with the right ELBOW, used in the same way as when you throw something, i.e., by STRAIGHTENING - a function of the triceps.

Straightening of the right arm CAN be a power accumulator, and I said simply that in a series of posts about power accumulators that HK missed or didn't care to discuss. This was a few mos. ago.

If the straightening left can be an accumulator, so can the straightening right. It may be a little more tricky for some, but sure, it can be achieved/effective.

I have no comment as to whether Hogan really used that, but he pretty much indicates he did in his book.

Make sense? :-(

Hogan's swing is a mystery within a mystery...but all golf mysteries are solveable...
 
David,

R. arm thrust is the 1st Power Accumulator in TGM.....maybe your post has typos?

...

BTW I've seen a fair amount of pics where Hogan's wrist was flat at the top. (or very close to flat.....not cupped enough to call cupped anyway...)
 
Last edited:
birdie_man said:
David,

R. arm thrust is the 1st Power Accumulator in TGM.....maybe your post has typos?

Sorta' a topo...I needed to add the wrist factor. It's straightening of the right arm plus straightening of the right wrist.

Hogan's book has a graphic of him showing exactly that, so that supports my contention.

Do I advocate it? Not necessarily. I'm just saying it is another accumulator TGM didn't cover for whatever reason.
Probably HK thought it part and parcel of clubhead throwaway. In general, it would be for the average golfer.
The average golfer will loose the wrist angle too soon if he uses it.

But for an expert, not necessarily. It sounds contradictory, but if done correctly, you won't have an early release.

Irregardless, it can add power. Whether it adds maximum benefit is a separate topic.

Aside from a full swing, I'll add it makes for some very nice "pop" pitches and chips when done correctly. I'm a little "shy" to use that specialty shot unless I have a good lie...
 
Most of the Hogan pics and video in my files show him with a right arm angle of roughly 45 degrees at the halfway down position and with that very same 45 degree right arm angle at impact - therefore he is not using the straightening of the right arm as a secondary power source as most tour pros do to some degree, the average tour pro has about 45 degrees halfway down and about 20 degrees at impact. Hogan used SuperConnected upper arms and the 45 degree right arm angle during impact to insure the shaft and right forearm in matching planes for maximum application of body thrust power into the ball - for distance AND accuracy. He said "the harder I hit it the straighter it goes...".

That option takes a very good spine angle and excellent balance to perform well. Longer than average arms helps too. He did advocate moving the right ellbow closer to the left elbow during the first stage of Transition, creating a "looping" action of the arms and shaft that shifted the plane to the right - along with a tiliting of the shoulder girdle, right shoulder down. Hogan called this move "dropping the right elbow onto the Power Plane" .

Hogan had many so called "secrets" - divided into both mental and physical categories. Close to the top of his list - if not THE top was swinging in rock solid balance, especially during the impact interval.

I disagree with David Alford on John Schlees ideas. John was an excellent teacher and although he did not match Hogan's swing perfectly, that is really not the point. I dont believe he was trying to perfectly duplicate Hogan's swing, he knew that we all need to develop our own unique swings to fit our body type, strength, flexiblity, etc. John was interested in learning universal fundamentals from Hogan that he could fit into his own golf swing in his own unique way AND teach to his students.

I have not read the Bertarnd book yet although I have ordered it. The "moving left wall" is very likely similar to what George posted above, his description is exactly how I see it, it is a "wall" because there is muscular resistance in the left leg due to the "scissors action" that occurs during pivot thrust (look at Michelle Wie swing sequence where she is wearing shorts for best visual evidence of this). The wall prevents the lateral weight transfer from throwing you off balance, ie a sway, and also contributes to the "whipcracking" effect of the wrist cock/forearm roll Release. But as George explained so well, the hips, core and torso - and through them thre arms, hands and club - are rotating to the left. "the moving left wall". You need both to strike it well.

Jim Waldron
 
Clear description above

PI's description is perfectly clear and describes most of what I try to do during my swing (sometimes successfully). I have the book mentioned above and just started it this week. I was interested to see what was written about John Schlee since I play with a guy that attended the Maximum Golf school a long while back. To tell the truth, I did get the Max Golf Book and tape out of curiousity but didn't find them too useful other than Mr. Schlee's description of the transition and the thing he called the "world class move" which flattens the plane. From both the book and tape it is hard to see what he wants folks to do other than move the right elbow down toward the right hip as you come back to the ball (which I find uncomfortable).

That being said, I will post some thoughts once I finish the book. I did finally get throught George's book but plan to go back for a reread since it is packed with info.
 
"Close to the top of his list - if not THE top was swinging in rock solid balance, especially during the impact interval."

I agree.....I've noticed that he and Nelson seem to stand taller than a lot of players....they were shorter guys tho I think.....this may play into it. Either way balance is huge.

"The machine" has to have a stable base. (at address and throughout) It must be right every time to hit it that straight every time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top