Must Read for Hogan Fans

[Perfect Impact]

Stability is in the balance, not in grabbing the ground with your feet. The use of the words "stable base" doesn't fit my model, which is a body in balance where the feet move a lot and the CENTER OF THE SWING is what is stable. The "base" of a good swing is C-7, some 5' above the ground.

 

[birdie_man]

Well of course it's in the balance...

I just think of the "base" as my legs....with the torso doing it's thing above them.....and you're always BALANCED on your feet, of course.

 

[bpgs1]

There is more than one balance center in an effective golf swing - including the upper center or C7 region of the spine. But I believe the connection that you establish to the ground - through your feet and the proprioceptive nerve endings in the soles of your feet - are far and away the most important of the balance centers. That notion applies to all sports not just golf - ask any really good dance teacher, martial arts instructor, skiiing instructor or gymnastics coach. Hogan knew this and worked hard on keeping stability in his feet/ankles - to the point of having an extra spike installed in both golf shoes!


Jim Waldron

 

[birdie_man]

Nerve endings? That's deep Jim.

 

[Damon Lucas]

How about ...

1. C7
2. Center of gravity
3. Proprioception
4. Visual balance
5. Inner ear balance

Any more???

 

[Perfect Impact]

'dynamic balance'

 

[Damon Lucas]

Does 'dynamic balance' affect 1 - 5 or is it separate?

 

[Perfect Impact]

I guess I just intuitively lumped all 5 without getting into detail - which can be stated AS dynamic balance. The feet do not push: they keep the body afloat: but the motion is activated by gravity and balance of opposing momenti [how do you like THAT for punctiliousness!].

So dynamic balance really IS the sum total of all that goes into the swing: shifting weight to prepare for the falling that energizes the swing, etc. And all of that is controlled by mental imagery.

Neat subject, the golf swing!

 

[bpgs1]

Dynamic Balance is simply balance in motion as opposed to static balance at setup. The visual balance system is pretty much inactive (although not totally) in the golf swing since it depends upon your head being in a normal erect spine position looking out toward the horizon. (Any decent ballstriker can hit it as well or almost as well with their eyes closed.) Since you are bent over and looking at the ground, it tends to not work very well.

Vestibuilar system is important, hence the need for a reasonably steady head, you dont want the inner ear fluid sloshing around too much. But most of the dynamic balance in the golf swing has to do with proprioception, the sense that you have of your overall body weight in or out of alignment with gravitys push or of a particular limb or body part. The feeling of balance in the feet is a constant though how much body weight pressure is being applied varies considerably depending upon which segment of the swing you are talking about. Eyes closed ballstriking is a wonderful way to train that sense of balance.

Some parts - Transition especially - there is certainly a pushing down feeling in both feet, especially the right foot for a right hand golfer, when you are in the Sitdown segment. Feet, Hara/Dantien or center of gravity two inches below your belly button, top of sternum or C7, knees and hands are the main centers of proprioception in the golf swing.

Jim Waldron

 

[Damon Lucas]

Dynamic Balance is simply balance in motion as opposed to static balance at setup. The visual balance system is pretty much inactive (although not totally) in the golf swing since it depends upon your head being in a normal erect spine position looking out toward the horizon. (Any decent ballstriker can hit it as well or almost as well with their eyes closed.) Since you are bent over and looking at the ground, it tends to not work very well.

Vestibuilar system is important, hence the need for a reasonably steady head, you dont want the inner ear fluid sloshing around too much. But most of the dynamic balance in the golf swing has to do with proprioception, the sense that you have of your overall body weight in or out of alignment with gravitys push or of a particular limb or body part. The feeling of balance in the feet is a constant though how much body weight pressure is being applied varies considerably depending upon which segment of the swing you are talking about. Eyes closed ballstriking is a wonderful way to train that sense of balance.

Some parts - Transition especially - there is certainly a pushing down feeling in both feet, especially the right foot for a right hand golfer, when you are in the Sitdown segment. Feet, Hara/Dantien or center of gravity two inches below your belly button, top of sternum or C7, knees and hands are the main centers of proprioception in the golf swing.

Jim Waldron

Apart from eyes closed exercises, what do you like to do/teach for balancing the various 'centers' that you mentioned?

Hara/Dantien???

 

[birdie_man]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/04...f=sr_1_38/002-4576191-9832059?ie=UTF8&s=books

So anyone read this thing yet?

 

[bpgs1]

Balance training

You simply focus your feel sense awareness on that body part and sense balance or lack thereof from that body part. After awhile, you gain a distinct sense of swinging in balance versus out of balance that is readily identified.

Jim Waldron

 

[kmmcnabb]

Reading it now

I just got it this week. Began readining it yesterday. It focuses on John Schlee and what the author "learned" from him (which he learned from Hogan). Thus far, the "secrets" are get the right elbow to the right hip and turn around spine. Get left elbow pointing at left hip during impact to properly release the hands using a neutral grip. I'll post more as I go.

I was interested in the book since my dad attended a Max Golf school way back when and liked it. I have the book and VHS but can't say I learned a great deal from it other than John Schlee had a move he called "the world class move" which involved moving the right elbow down before beginning the downswing (I can't do it).

Anyone else care to comment on John Schlee is welcome. The book has been interesting for details on Schlee if it is true.

 

[mrodock]

Personally I was unimpressed with the book. That is not to say that the book doesn't contain some interesting anecdotes, which is certainly does, but as far as containing Hogan's "secret(s), maybe one particularly new and good idea, but I'm not even sure about that one. (the idea is using the left arm to square the clubface)

Matt

 

[birdie_man]

What is this idea now?? Could u elaborate?

...

What was that thing about the wall btw? Curious.

It says: "Worth buying the book for this concept alone."

 

[mrodock]

What is this idea now?? Could u elaborate?

...

What was that thing about the wall btw? Curious.

It says: "Worth buying the book for this concept alone."

I read the instruction part carefully, I skimmed some of the other stuff. The wall was different from what other's thought it might be. The wall idea, if I skimmed properly was just that Hogan focused on the task in front of him, the wall moved with him through the course, effectively blocking out the course behind him (his thoughts about prior shots). A cool visual for one shot at a time.

As for the left elbow, the idea is that the elbow stays in close to the body through impact and rotates in order to square the club up for impact. I cannot do much more to explain it than that. Perhaps someone that has purchased the book can help us on this one.

Matt

 

[bpgs1]

Hogan/Schlee book

I read the book today. Not much new from what Schlee wrote in his 1986 classic Maximum Golf - except for the left elbow rotation to help square the face. Kind of a blend of Five Lessons and Maximum Golf. If you havent read Schlees book - now of out print - this is the next best thing. I dont believe Hogan told ANYONE - including John Schlee - all of his so-called "secrets".

In my own research on Hogan's ideas, I have tried to include all of the published accounts of his revealing a "secret" with close visual inspection of his swing. Very likely that he emphasized to Schlee those aspects of the Hogan model that Schlee needed to work on most in his golf swing, like triangle or "inward setting of the arms and elbows", the right elbow loop on Transition, hitting the ball with the body - not the hands or arms, etc. A lot of this book is repetitious. And - I dont think I read a word in the entire book about Hogan's ideas on the importance of swinging in balance, which as I posted above, is very likely his most essential physical "secret".

My favorite part was Hogan referring to one's body being a "machine" and the hands as a "chuck" (like in a power drill). He said to never change your swing mechanics to curve the ball or change trajectory but that one should place the golf club or "tool" in the "chuck" to fade or draw the ball as desired. Mr. Kelley would have loved that!

Jim Waldron

 

[kmmcnabb]

I have both

I finished the book this week and I have Schlee's book and tape for Maximum Golf. I am a little disappointed since it really didn't elaborate much more than Max Golf which never really helped me much. Perhaps the school would have been different but I was too young to go. As far as the left elbow and clubface control, that was the ONLY new thing I read. I am not sure if or how it would work for me but the gist is that you point the left elbow at your left hip during impact to close the clubface. I don't know, my swing is pretty fast, so I'm not sure on how to implement this idea.

Otherwise, the stories were interesting but nothing too revealing about Hogan's swing.

I think I will stick with working on my flying wedges, impact position, and chipping. It's free and it works.

 

[birdie_man]

So you're saying Hogan would rotate only the clubface in his grip to produce a draw or fade??

 

[bpgs1]

Yes. Same method Nicklaus used. Of course you align your body lines parallel to your ball flight starting direction line and then swing normally. The open or closed clubface in your hands creates the slice or hook. Its the simplest way to do it - which is why both those great players employed it and recommended it to other golfers. You can also add grip pressure adjustment to accentuate the effect. Firmer in the left/softer in the right for slices, firmer in the right/softer in the left for hooks. Only downside is it can be hard for some folks to see the intended starting line direction when setting up since the face is open or closed to that line instead of square to it like a regular shot.

Jim Waldron