My golfing dream is on the line

[Matt 4-L]

I have decided to redo my whole swing.

I have taught myself how to scrape it around the golf course with a functional swing but I believe I hit a ceiling and can’t get to where I want to be.

I have all of Brian’s videos but I decided I needed a teacher to help me in this process. For obvious reason’s Brian would be my first choice but for a northern guy the distance just doesn’t work out with a young family and all.

I was really apprehensive about taking lessons from somebody I know very little about but I was desperate and I had I really liked one of his students swings so I decided to sign up for a lesson and test the guy out. I told him I wanted to be able to compete in amateur tournaments and I was looking for the “pro type swing”.

He watched me hit some balls and then video taped me and then told me to pick out a target on the range and hit to it, I did and then he showed me the things I was doing wrong: I setup/aimed right of the target and then closed the club face to get the ball to the target. I was not using my hips properly. My first lesson he got me to setup/aimed properly and opened the clubface, he then wanted me to start the swing with opening my hips as fast and hard as I could. I went home and worked on getting my hips open as I could at impact, I would get into impact fixed and try to open my hips as much as possible.

After a day or two of really working hard at that move I started to really get it and I began to hit the ball right and way right I couldn’t square the clubface for nothing. He had told me that this was going to happen when I started to use my hips properly and said to come back for my next lesson when I got this down. I went back for my next lesson and he said yes indeed my hips were now working properly and because of the way I used to use my hips and closed club face I had very little rotation of the arms and had a hold off finish so I wouldn’t hook it off the planet.

He said now you have to learn to rotate your arms properly on the downswing, we worked on the range the whole hour trying to get this move down I hit a few really solid shots but I was really struggling to get this move. He sent me home to work on it and if I was still struggling with it in a week to come back (I signed up for 4 lessons).

This is where I am at right now.

I re-watched NSA to get some ideas how to square the clubface at impact. I think I may have been opening the face a smidge more than 90° so I am doing mirror work trying to make sure I open only to 90°. I know some people will say to just do the twistaway and not open it so much but I am not trying to build a swing that is functional because I had that before I am trying to build an orthodox swing that has no compensations. For you good players with text book swings when do you feel like you start to square the club face at? The shots I was hitting good I felt as if I had to start rotating my arms at the start of the downswing but I also started pulling the ball some doing that. When your opening your hips on the downswing are you also rotating your arms or does that happen when you “brake” and let the arms swing by the chest?

I think Brian is coming to Michigan in July sometime so hopefully my wife will let me get a live lesson with him. This is my last shot at trying to be a player if this doesn’t work out I am going to have to find a way to be happy shooting an 80.

 

[vjsinger]

If I remember correctly, didn't you have a restricted Backswing turn in the hips/shoulders? and the instructor is trying to open your hips more on the DS?? Id look at the BS pivot first and make sure you have that nice free turn in the hips and shoulders and a nice "rolling of the feet".

 

[Matt 4-L]

If I remember correctly, didn't you have a restricted Backswing turn in the hips/shoulders? and the instructor is trying to open your hips more on the DS?? Id look at the BS pivot first and make sure you have that nice free turn in the hips and shoulders and a nice "rolling of the feet".

Nope, not really. I actually get a fairly large shoulder turn and I don't "restrict" my hips they turn to approximately so my belt buckle points at my right foot. I have some mobility issues but I am working on that. If you look at any good ball striker they have open hips at impact mine were not.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I re-watched NSA to get some ideas how to square the clubface at impact. I think I may have been opening the face a smidge more than 90° so I am doing mirror work trying to make sure I open only to 90°. I know some people will say to just do the twistaway and not open it so much but I am not trying to build a swing that is functional because I had that before I am trying to build an orthodox swing that has no compensations.

The twistaway is not a compensation, it is an orthodox move that many do. I use it in my swing because of my tendencies is to over-rotate the left arm in the backswing and while i "feel" like i am using a ton of twistaway the reality is i'm not, i'm very close to the "toe up" point at hip high but to me it feels closed.

Every good player has some amount of twistaway that they use, especially in the downswing otherwise their pivot would open the club a ton on the downswing and the only way to resist that is to perform some kind of twistawy.

Now for me, i have to be conscious of it on the BACKSWING because if i do it right on the backswing then i don't have to worry about it in the downswing because i made the correct backswing move.

 

[Matt 4-L]

The twistaway is not a compensation, it is an orthodox move that many do. I use it in my swing because of my tendencies is to over-rotate the left arm in the backswing and while i "feel" like i am using a ton of twistaway the reality is i'm not, i'm very close to the "toe up" point at hip high but to me it feels closed.

Every good player has some amount of twistaway that they use, especially in the downswing otherwise their pivot would open the club a ton on the downswing and the only way to resist that is to perform some kind of twistawy.

Now for me, i have to be conscious of it on the BACKSWING because if i do it right on the backswing then i don't have to worry about it in the downswing because i made the correct backswing move.

I should of stated that better. What I meant is to twistaway so the club is something like 45° open which would require a lot less rotation on the downswing. I want to learn how to properly rotate my arms on the downswing.

 

[jimmyt]

Matt;

I think you need to reread Jim's post. You either make the compensation in the back swing as Jim does, then minimal rotation on down swing or you do it all in the down swing if you impart minimal twistaway in back swing.

You seem stuck on what you believe is a "Tour Swing". All the swings I see on tour are all different. They stick with a swing and groove it by hitting a 1,000 golf balls a day. For you to revamp your entire swing and play very competitive ameteur golf that is the comititment you will have to make. Now you said you have a family can you devote that kind of time to rework your swing.

I think if you find a pattern that is truely yours and stick with it through thick and thin, then develop short game and putting.....I think you can get to the level of play you desire.

Just my opinion.........

Best of luck.....

 

[fronesis]

I should of stated that better. What I meant is to twistaway so the club is something like 45° open which would require a lot less rotation on the downswing. I want to learn how to properly rotate my arms on the downswing.

I think the twistaway TEACHES you how to properly rotate your arms on the downswing. That's the genius of it.

I was a slicer who opened up the face too much and had never felt the torque of the twistaway. It was only after playing with a twisted-away backswing that I learned what it felt like to properly rotate the left arm flying wedge.

After doing so for a while, I find that, unlike Jim, I don't need or want ANY twistaway on the backswing, because I now know what it feels like to square the clubface properly on the downswing without flipping it. But it was twistaway that showed me this feel.

So I understand that you want to learn orthodox fundamentals. But that's no reason to avoid twistaway. It's a reason to start there.

 

[Shot Limit]

Good point fronesis,

I think sometimes things need to be over-done to let you know what it feels like. When it's time to back off a little it feels more natural.

If your only compensation is "twistaway", it can't be that bad. The twist has to happen to square to face whether it's in the back swing, top of the swing, the down swing or right before impact.

I know I can't speak for anyone but myself, in my case: If you have a crappy swing, an orthodox swing FEELS unorthodox and filled with compensations.

Don't give up hope, good luck with your dream.

 

[jbrunk]

On the DS, add the twist as soon as you step on your left foot.

 

[vjsinger]

Nope, not really. I actually get a fairly large shoulder turn and I don't "restrict" my hips they turn to approximately so my belt buckle points at my right foot. I have some mobility issues but I am working on that. If you look at any good ball striker they have open hips at impact mine were not.

Sorry. Best of luck.

 

[ggsjpc]

lietzke, always lietzke

I have decided to redo my whole swing. I have taught myself how to scrape it around the golf course with a functional swing but I believe I hit a ceiling and can’t get to where I want to be. I have all of Brian’s videos but I decided I needed a teacher to help me in this process. For obvious reason’s Brian would be my first choice but for a northern guy the distance just doesn’t work out with a young family and all. I was really apprehensive about taking lessons from somebody I know very little about but I was desperate and I had I really liked one of his students swings so I decided to sign up for a lesson and test the guy out. I told him I wanted to be able to compete in amateur tournaments and I was looking for the “pro type swing”. He watched me hit some balls and then video taped me and then told me to pick out a target on the range and hit to it, I did and then he showed me the things I was doing wrong: I setup/aimed right of the target and then closed the club face to get the ball to the target. I was not using my hips properly. My first lesson he got me to setup/aimed properly and opened the clubface, he then wanted me to start the swing with opening my hips as fast and hard as I could. I went home and worked on getting my hips open as I could at impact, I would get into impact fixed and try to open my hips as much as possible. After a day or two of really working hard at that move I started to really get it and I began to hit the ball right and way right I couldn’t square the clubface for nothing. He had told me that this was going to happen when I started to use my hips properly and said to come back for my next lesson when I got this down. I went back for my next lesson and he said yes indeed my hips were now working properly and because of the way I used to use my hips and closed club face I had very little rotation of the arms and had a hold off finish so I wouldn’t hook it off the planet. He said now you have to learn to rotate your arms properly on the downswing, we worked on the range the whole hour trying to get this move down I hit a few really solid shots but I was really struggling to get this move. He sent me home to work on it and if I was still struggling with it in a week to come back (I signed up for 4 lessons). This is where I am at right now. I re-watched NSA to get some ideas how to square the clubface at impact. I think I may have been opening the face a smidge more than 90° so I am doing mirror work trying to make sure I open only to 90°. I know some people will say to just do the twistaway and not open it so much but I am not trying to build a swing that is functional because I had that before I am trying to build an orthodox swing that has no compensations. For you good players with text book swings when do you feel like you start to square the club face at? The shots I was hitting good I felt as if I had to start rotating my arms at the start of the downswing but I also started pulling the ball some doing that. When your opening your hips on the downswing are you also rotating your arms or does that happen when you “brake” and let the arms swing by the chest?

I think Brian is coming to Michigan in July sometime so hopefully my wife will let me get a live lesson with him. This is my last shot at trying to be a player if this doesn’t work out I am going to have to find a way to be happy shooting an 80.

If the person you are going to see, thinks Bruce Lietzke hit too big of a cut, then they doesn't understand what it takes to play tour level golf.

The desire of so many instructors to make it look right or in your words "orthodox" doesn't benefit his student if it isn't repeatable. The ability to hit the ball so it lands in the area you want and it goes far enough to hold the green are the only real ball striking elements a person needs.

After that it is shortgame, putting, repeatability and mental.

Looks have nothing to do with it.

At every stage in golf dominance, the new dominant player did it differently than the reigning one. Don't get so hung up on orthodox.

 

[vjsinger]

If the person you are going to see, thinks Bruce Lietzke hit too big of a cut, then they doesn't understand what it takes to play tour level golf.

The desire of so many instructors to make it look right or in your words "orthodox" doesn't benefit his student if it isn't repeatable. The ability to hit the ball so it lands in the area you want and it goes far enough to hold the green are the only real ball striking elements a person needs.

After that it is shortgame, putting, repeatability and mental.

Looks have nothing to do with it.

At every stage in golf dominance, the new dominant player did it differently than the reigning one. Don't get so hung up on orthodox.

Yes,Yes,very well said, I like the Lietzke reference, nice.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

After doing so for a while, I find that, unlike Jim, I don't need or want ANY twistaway on the backswing, because I now know what it feels like to square the clubface properly on the downswing without flipping it. But it was twistaway that showed me this feel.

So I understand that you want to learn orthodox fundamentals. But that's no reason to avoid twistaway. It's a reason to start there.

Just wanted to add that i don't "always need" it. After a long winter away from golf i reverted back to a too over-rotated left arm. So i'll have to consciously monitor the left arm wedge in the backswing for a while until it becomes "automatic." Then just as you, i won't have to think about it because i've trained myself back to where i want to be.

 

[Zztop]

If the person you are going to see, thinks Bruce Lietzke hit too big of a cut, then they doesn't understand what it takes to play tour level golf.

The desire of so many instructors to make it look right or in your words "orthodox" doesn't benefit his student if it isn't repeatable. The ability to hit the ball so it lands in the area you want and it goes far enough to hold the green are the only real ball striking elements a person needs.

After that it is shortgame, putting, repeatability and mental.

Looks have nothing to do with it.

At every stage in golf dominance, the new dominant player did it differently than the reigning one. Don't get so hung up on orthodox.

that would be teaching someone to golf their ball, love it.no one ever said it better, different but not better. now that's someone who get's it!

 

[Richie3Jack]

I think you'll find that swing overhauls are not all what they are cracked up to be. You're better addressing what your problem shots are and then finding out what parts of the swing are causing those problems and then making the proper adjustments to those parts.

If Phil Mickelson wants to become a better ballstriker, he doesn't need to overhaul his swing to make if look like the left handed Ben Hogan. He needs to take his swing and attack the flaws and get them straightened out. The same applies for a 20 handicapper.

The Italian Stallion will get you straightened out.




3JACK

 

[wdking]

Next Time

Matt:
When you go out for milk this summer...keep driving to Louisville to see Brian.

Seriously, you need to find your pattern. My backswing was so flat that I could hosel rocket with the best of them...with a 3.4 index. I now have more of a NHA backswing with some twistaway and a good pivot. I have every video of Brian's, there's great stuff in all of them...but you know that.

Just my 2 cents, any instructor that told me it would get worse before better would have me leaving skidmarks, or getting a refund. With Brian, you hit it better instantly.

 

[Matt 4-L]

Matt:
When you go out for milk this summer...keep driving to Louisville to see Brian.

Seriously, you need to find your pattern. My backswing was so flat that I could hosel rocket with the best of them...with a 3.4 index. I now have more of a NHA backswing with some twistaway and a good pivot. I have every video of Brian's, there's great stuff in all of them...but you know that.

Just my 2 cents, any instructor that told me it would get worse before better would have me leaving skidmarks, or getting a refund. With Brian, you hit it better instantly.

I tried to get a lesson from Brian earlier this year when I drove down to Florida but he wasn't in Louisville yet. As for the instructor I am seeing now, he didn't say it was going to get worse he just said when I started getting my hips open correctly on the downswing I was going to start missing to the right. He fixed my club face first and then said he wanted to get my lower body working properly in the first lesson. Now for the rotation of my arms I have been working on it and I think I have got it down pretty good. He kept telling me I had too much tension in my grip and arms so I worked on trying to hold the club as light as possible and not letting any tension in my arms. I went out this morning and hit the ball great with a slight draw and an occasional hook. I found out if I get a little lazy with the hips thats when I would hook it but if I fired as hard as I could I could release as hard as I wanted. I will try to get some video so you can see how it compared to my swing I posted earlier this year.

 

[wdking]

The correct pivot is hard

My lazy downswing pivot contributed so much to my ballstriking woes. What amazes me is how efficient and seemingly smooth and unforced the PGA pros look while pivoting. If I could only capture that.
Look forward to seeing any video and good luck on your journey!

 

[birdie_man]

I think Brian is coming to Michigan in July sometime so hopefully my wife will let me get a live lesson with him. This is my last shot at trying to be a player if this doesn’t work out I am going to have to find a way to be happy shooting an 80.

How do you figure that?

I appreciate your calculated approach in some ways (I am in a constant state of fairly unorganized change, or at least have been a lot of the time)...

...but...

You are sure you want to completely rip everything apart?

You have to be doing some things right.

 

[birdie_man]

Just my 2 cents, any instructor that told me it would get worse before better would have me leaving skidmarks, or getting a refund. With Brian, you hit it better instantly.

Haha I like it. Screeeeeeeech. (leave some rubber in the parking lot)

Really though...and Brian has said it before...I like the idea of evolving much more than overhauling.