My impression of S&T

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The Return of NAT

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Ringer said:
Flexion - the position that a limb assumes when it is bent. Dunno exactly how that conveys to weight transfer so I'm interested in his response.
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You ever been on Force Plates?

That's reveals "True" weight transfer...COG Movement!!!

Let's see lateral flexion of the hips when combined with transverse rotation of pelvis and interior rotation of right hip and exterior rotation of the left hip in the backstroke produces "Hip Slant" when combined with right knee extension and left knee flexion = Sam Snead...Do I need to go on?

;)
 
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Ringer

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Wow. That was about the most elitist thing I've seen posted. I guess I'm not good enough for you to explain it to me.
 
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The Return of NAT

New
Ringer said:
Wow. That was about the most elitist thing I've seen posted. I guess I'm not good enough for you to explain it to me.
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Good Enough as a person...Probably you are a very good individual...And I'm not attacking you personally!!!

Just Your "uneducated expertise about Stack and Tilt"...Is basically just Not worth it!!!


Yes...A very "elite group of inidividuals" I've learned from...

Start Studying Smarty Pants

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip


Movement of the hip joint
Flexion of the hip occurs when the angle between the torso and thigh is decreased. When this angle is increased beyond normal standing posture, the movement is called hip extension. Hip rotation occurs when the femur moves along its longitudinal axis. When the anterior surface of the femur turns outward, this is lateral rotation of the hip. The movement of the anterior surface of the femur inward is medial rotation of the hip. Medial rotation of the hip is carried out by gluteus medius and gluteus minimus. Hip abduction occurs when the femur moves outward to the side, as in taking the thighs apart. Hip adduction occurs when the femur moves back to the midline.

Many of the hip muscles are responsible for more than one type of movement in the hip, as different areas of the muscle act on tendons in different ways.

The psoas is the primary hip flexor, assisted by the iliacus. The pectineus, the adductors longus, brevis, and magnus, as well as the tensor fasciae latae are also involved in flexion.

The gluteus maximus is the main hip extensor, but the inferior portion of the adductor magnus also plays a role.

The adductor group is responsible for hip adduction. Abduction primarily occurs via the gluteus medius as well as the gluteus minimus.

Medial rotation is performed by the glutaei medius and minimus, as well as the tensor fasciae latae and assisted by the adductors brevis and longus and the superior portion of the adductor magnus.

Each muscle of the lateral rotator group causes lateral rotation of the thigh. These muscles are aided by the gluteus maximus and the inferior portion of the adductor magnus.
 
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JeffM

New member
NAT - It is my understanding that the correct use of the medical terms when applied to "hip movements" primarily applies to a situation where the pelvis is static in position and the acetabulum (hip socket) remans "fixed" in postion AND where the femoral head moves in the hip socket as a result of movements of the thigh. In other words, in anatomical terms, hip movements refer to movements of the femoral head within the hip socket (not the opposite - hip socket with reference to the femoral head). For example, if one is lying flat (supine) on one's back on a table, so that the end of the table is under the pelvis AND the lower limbs are held in space by muscle forces (or by an assistant holding his palm under each heel to support the weight of the legs), then we can consider the "true" nature of hip movements. Under those circumstances, external rotation of the right hip refers to a movement of the right thigh when the right thigh rotates outwards (clockwise - as viewed from the head-to-the-toes) and that will cause the front of the right knee to move outwards (front of the right knee would move clockwise - as viewed from the head-to-the toes). Now, if you want to use those anatomical terms with respect to the golfer's hips during the backswing, then surely it would be correct to state that the left thigh is INTERNALLY rotated during the backswing as the left knee kicks-in towards the centre. That's the traditional use of the medical terms - where the joint is regarded as "fixed" and the limb is regarded as moving at the joint in a particular direction with respect to the joint. So, what does "external rotation of the left hip" mean in the backswing?

Also, what is lateral flexion of the hip?

You talk of pelvic movements as being different to hip movements. For example, you refer to anterior/posterior movements of the pelvis. I presume that you are referring to tilting of the pelvis forwards and backwards (as seen from the side), which must actually occur within the hip joint.

Whenever we debate issues in this forum, our opinions are obviously "theoretical". In that sense, my opinions about hip movements in the backswing are theoretical. If you DON"T think that my "theoretical" opinions are consonant with reality, then you merely have to demonstrate my factual errors.

Jeff.
 
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JamesBurg

New
Amazing, how ya'll like to argue details. I wonder if any of you can consistently synchronize the details of your own swing in the one second or so that you have from takeaway to impact.

You can't do it by thinking about the details. You need one swing thought that makes it as natural as a baseball swing.
 
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Ringer

New
I know what flexion is. I DONT know what internal and external rotation is because you're using them in a very odd manner here.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
All Time Best Post on the HISTORY of this forum!

tongzilla said:
Too much diagnosis and not enough fixing!
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Abso—friggin-lutely!

Look, NAT, if Faxon come to me with TOO much delay, and too much Right, and too MUCH lean, I just fix him.

And I mean fix.

He'll LOOK like a REAL GOLFER.

The beauty of actual real TEACHING, not ASSEMBLY.

There is a difference.

At the Brian Manzella Golf Academy, if you swing too far RIGHT, we get you to swing further left until the ball goes straight and you can get your long irons in the air again.

The reason I say this is NOT the article—it was the "fix" the writer got.

Really not very good. Explain that one.
 
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The Return of NAT

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Brian Manzella said:
Abso—friggin-lutely!

Look, NAT, if Faxon come to me with TOO much delay, and too much Right, and too MUCH lean, I just fix him.

And I mean fix.

He'll LOOK like a REAL GOLFER.

The beauty of actual real TEACHING, not ASSEMBLY.

There is a difference.

At the Brian Manzella Golf Academy, if you swing too far RIGHT, we get you to swing further left until the ball goes straight and you can get your long irons in the air again.

The reason I say this is NOT the article—it was the "fix" the writer got.

Really not very good. Explain that one.
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B...

You're right...

when you're right ...you're right...no need to discuss this anymore!!!

;)
 
Dana Dahlquist

Dana Dahlquist

New
I think Faxon kinda knows what he does though. Brian could fix him sure. Heck I would hope Brad could too. Point is its more that this. The team thing works well too. Everyone climbs the mountian as a group.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
The Point is....

Today—in very hot Atlanta—I had a ONE HOUR lesson with a regular forum poster. He has been to "famous" teacher schools, and has worked with those who would have everyone swing to the "right of Rush Limbaugh."

Without the Basic Motion Curriculum, without Bending way over and doing the Hardy one-plane dance, without Haney's weird takeaway,

and without any hint of the "hover" swing (Stack and Tilt or whatever it should be called),

I FIXED a guy who swung WAY TOO FAR to the right.

He went from NO WAY he could hit a fade to FADING every ball. From NO WAY to getting a Driver in the air off the deck, to doing it EASILY.

FIXED as in BETTER, as in LOKKS BETTER ON VIDEO and THE BALL FLIES higher and straighter.

This stuff just ain't that hard....

IF!...

You can teach and you have a clue.
 
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davel

New
After reading this entire thread I think I found out stack and tilt as described in the golf digest article article that are in know is not at all correct. I also found out by Brian that it is not releavant by Brian since he just will fix the real swing problem( I believe it to be true.). But I really did not learn if whatever they are teaching would help me since I will not transfer very much weight to my right leg. I have no problem with the irons but the angle of attack is too steep for the driver. As brian knows or saw I tried overcoming the tendency by taking a very flat backswing but it was underplane and a had to change my posture in the downswing and drop down like tiger to get back to the ball.

In conclusion should I thow out the article or can the experts on morad or the matrix or whoever provide me some ideas on a more unorthodox pivot that may not be optimal but will allow me to play the best of my potential.

I know that that pattern does exist since there are people who do it. The question is what compensation was required to get away with it.

thanks
Dave
 
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JamesBurg

New
foggylou said:
your ranting explains why you are a "small time swing swami."
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A personal attack on Ringer! That should get your butt kicked off the forum.:eek:

Actually, Ringer is a very good swing swami. I would have him analyze my swing if I had any interest in the details.:)
 
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Cope

New
Getting the lesson to the course

Brian Manzella said:
Today—in very hot Atlanta—I had a ONE HOUR lesson with a regular forum poster. He has been to "famous" teacher schools, and has worked with those who would have everyone swing to the "right of Rush Limbaugh."

Without the Basic Motion Curriculum, without Bending way over and doing the Hardy one-plane dance, without Haney's weird takeaway,

and without any hint of the "hover" swing (Stack and Tilt or whatever it should be called),

I FIXED a guy who swung WAY TOO FAR to the right.

He went from NO WAY he could hit a fade to FADING every ball. From NO WAY to getting a Driver in the air off the deck, to doing it EASILY.

FIXED as in BETTER, as in LOKKS BETTER ON VIDEO and THE BALL FLIES higher and straighter.

This stuff just ain't that hard....

IF!...

You can teach and you have a clue.
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Brian,

I hope that I can ask this question in a way that does not offend. I don't have any doubt about your ability as a teacher. My question is regarding getting the changes made on the range to the golf course.

I happened to be around Faxon for one of his first S&T lessons. He hit beautiful high compressed iron shots of a quality he had not seen before. It was a great lesson.

I thought at the moment, "The other guys are going to be in trouble if Faxon can hit it anywhere close to as good as this and continue his world class putting." I have been surprised that Faxon has not played better. Maybe he is playing better but not scoring, I don't know.

Is it an indictment of the S&T pattern, or that the player has to find a way to get it to the course. I know that some of the junk teachers are teaching will never work, but that's not what I saw that day with Faxon. It looked natural and free from behind.

My question really relates to overcoming deeply ingrained swing faults for an everyday or tournament player. Could you share some insight about getting the changes to the course?
 
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