Natural mechanics

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cdog

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A question, if one were to swing, and the only thing that is in his mind is to swing the clubhead in a pendulmn type motion, would his body have good mechanics?
So instead of concentrating on moving the body to produce the swing, we concentrate on the swing and feel and let the body just do it.
 
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MizunoJoe

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"Swinging the clubhead in a pendulum motion" is not the correct concept, because it leads to clubhead throwaway, with the hands putting a side force on the handle of the club.

You want to pull the entire club, along the shaft line, at an aiming point on the plane line. If you do this, the body WILL provide the mechanics - it's called "Hand Controlled Pivot".

"concentrating on moving the body to produce the swing" is called "Pivot Controlled Hands".
 
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drewitgolf

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Excellent response by MizunoJoe. Swingers need linear acceleration as opposed to radial acceleration. If I have seen it once I have seen it thousands of times; swingers trying to put a "hit" into their swing. It doesn't work.
 
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Brian Manzella

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Ever read Ernest Jones?

Ever watched a very young golfer with a slightly too heavy club?

...BUT!...

...Once you've got 'em...you've got 'em...

...like the yips....

(By 'got 'em I mean all those bad swings that you have made in your memory).
 
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EdZ

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much better to focus on swinging your HANDS in a true pendulum motion.... like tossing a ball

only the toss is down plane, to both arms straight, into the ground, not at the target

a pure 'swing' of the entire club is an important feeling.... the rock on a string tempo

if you understand the concept of the rock and string - and lag, you will see why a pure swinging motion is both a) critical and b) easy for those that don't understand it to overdo and have throwaway
 
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cdog

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Then, is Joe's opinion one you would agree with?
I'm not quite sure why it would cause throw away.
 
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Brian Manzella

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As far as what ERNEST JONES (not his 'supposed' modern believers like De la torre) teaches...in his book "SWING THE CLUBHEAD," Ernest shows a 6year old girl swinging 'his way' with LOTS of lag and perfect flat left wrist.
 
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MizunoJoe

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EdZ,

Your hands don't move in a pendulum motion for a Straight Line Delivery Path of the hands(10-23-A or 10-23-C). Coupled with Drag Loading(10-19-C), this is how BEST to accelerate the shaft longitudinally to a Maximum Trigger Delay Snap Release.

Circle Delivery Path(10-23-E) for the hands is normally done with "No Axis Tilt" and is therefore inferior for full shots.
 
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bts

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quote:Originally posted by cdog

A question, if one were to swing, and the only thing that is in his mind is to swing the clubhead in a pendulmn type motion, would his body have good mechanics?
So instead of concentrating on moving the body to produce the swing, we concentrate on the swing and feel and let the body just do it.
Click to expand...
A golf swing basically concerns with where (geometry) and how long/hard/fast (physics) for the club to be move based on the golfer's intention (you move it because you want to). The former is handled in collaboration with the eyes and the later with the hands.

The resistance (LAG) of the club and body parts encountered during transition (loading) and acceleration (moving) causes the body to react in a way resembling a swing motion. You can pull it, throw it, toss it, push it, release or not linearly or circularly or whatever, as long as the hands and "LAG" are the primary concern.

To move it club precisely demands concentration and practice.
 
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cdog

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What is some of the differences between the teachings of Ernest Jones and a De La Torre or a Frankel?
From what i have seen of them (very little), they preach a motion comming from the FEEL of the clubhead.
 
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MizunoJoe

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cdog,

In a pendulum motion, the moving end comes down on exactly the same path as it went up. In an effective golf stroke, the clubhead comes down on a much narrower path. Most people, when given this pendulum concept of the moving clubhead, will make the clubhead move away from the target on the DS, which is equivalent to throwing away #2 accumulator.
 
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cdog

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Joe, thanks for the clarification, and i understand what you mean.
I was watching myself in the mirror, and it seems to have the opposite affect for me, i try to FEEL the clubhead, feel the rhythm it produces, feel the weight against my trigger finger, i seem to have more of an angle, but i am also making sure my wrists are completely relaxed, therefor the clubhead is really hanging back.
 
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EdZ

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quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

EdZ,

Your hands don't move in a pendulum motion for a Straight Line Delivery Path of the hands(10-23-A or 10-23-C). Coupled with Drag Loading(10-19-C), this is how BEST to accelerate the shaft longitudinally to a Maximum Trigger Delay Snap Release.

Circle Delivery Path(10-23-E) for the hands is normally done with "No Axis Tilt" and is therefore inferior for full shots.
Click to expand...

You are confusing Tempo/Rhythm with path/direction.... they are not the same

The Tempo/Rhythm of the 'pendulum', of the rock on a string, of the HANDS - is critical
 
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cdog

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If we are talking a pure swinging motion, one where the club is stressed length wise, and applying the rock on a string motion, how can there be any pressure on #3?
Thinking about the endless belt affect, with the little gear where the belt goes around and centrifugal force throws the clubHEAD out, no stress on the shaft sideways, there would be no pressure from the trigger finger, if there was, wouldnt it tend to disturb the orbit of the moving head?
 
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MizunoJoe

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EdZ,

Let's assume YOUR interpretation that 'pendulum motion' is in fact 'the tempo of the pendulum motion' The tempo of a pendulum motion is 1:1 - to and fro, and that's not the case for any efficient full-shot golf stroke I've seen - it's more like 2:1 to 3:1. For Steve Pate and Bob Murphy, it's more like 5:1.

Teaching a student to gather and deliver with pendulum tempo will create a powerless stroke. So, from either perspective - the MOTION of pendulum motion or the TEMPO of pendulum motion, it's the wrong idea for stroke engineering.
 
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