Never Slice Again - Twist Away

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B

BigBadDonkey

New
Hi all,
After much time employing this move I strike the ball much better and much straighter. My Slice has gone for sure. I'm a much better player.
I now tend to have the other problem, hooking.
Lately been particularly bad, with low smuthered shots at times.
I also am more flat than I used to be which also bothers me slightly with this method?
I get my clubface closed very quickly on the backswing , but do play a 'hit' so this may be not too bad.
Maybe I'm twisting too much early wihtout knowing it and need to employ some twist the other way.
Anyway I'm dieing to know this about wrist motion on the way back.....
Question... do the top pros really use this right wrist bend back method. My guess is they are somewhere in between this and the 'cocking up' method but this really is an uneducated guess.
Maybe they are rotating there arms hands much better than me.
Is there no hinge action of the right wrist whatsoever?
I find this hard to believe, but shoot me....
Just need some clarification on the wrist method on the way back really.
I was looking at that swing setter thing and I think all that would do is get golfers employing an updown hinging (slicing) method.
Any help much appreciated.
 
jeffy

jeffy

Banned
quote:Originally posted by BigBadDonkey

Hi all,
After much time employing this move I strike the ball much better and much straighter. My Slice has gone for sure. I'm a much better player.
I now tend to have the other problem, hooking.
Lately been particularly bad, with low smuthered shots at times.
I also am more flat than I used to be which also bothers me slightly with this method?
I get my clubface closed very quickly on the backswing , but do play a 'hit' so this may be not too bad.
Maybe I'm twisting too much early wihtout knowing it and need to employ some twist the other way.
Anyway I'm dieing to know this about wrist motion on the way back.....
Question... do the top pros really use this right wrist bend back method. My guess is they are somewhere in between this and the 'cocking up' method but this really is an uneducated guess.
Maybe they are rotating there arms hands much better than me.
Is there no hinge action of the right wrist whatsoever?
I find this hard to believe, but shoot me....
Just need some clarification on the wrist method on the way back really.
I was looking at that swing setter thing and I think all that would do is get golfers employing an updown hinging (slicing) method.
Any help much appreciated.
Click to expand...

In my case, the low smothered shot isn't because of the bending of the right wrist, it is because the left arm fails to rotate on plane in the backswing.

Jeff
 
A

Archie Swivel

New
Strike the inside corner of the ball with a forward-leaning shaft and mega axis tilt and use angled hinging. Chase it like Paula Creamer. Report back.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
You have made the first step of the two step process:

You've learned how to NOT SLICE it and have improved your plane enough so that you're not HOOKING IT. Now you need to learn how not to hook it with "Never Hook Again."

"Never Slice Again" and "Never Hook Again" are more "fix it" patterns as brian calls them. They get you to stop doing what you're not supposed to be doing QUICKLY. However over time you will end up overdoing it and it will create problems.

So my advise is that if you're enjoying the twistaway type backswing, keep doing it. However don't "twist" so much. Get more of a FLAT wrist instead of a big ARCHED wrist.
 
W

Wolfman

New
I had the exact same problem - caused by several other faults.

Mostly a driver problem.

1. Left wrist was not flat - enough - with grip. Either take it at impact fix or test "flatness" like Brian does in his article.

2. Did not sustain lag - allowing left wrist to breakdown at impact closing the clubface

3. My right elbow wants to go to "punch" position during release - very hard to get to inside aft quadrant of ball from there.

#3 is the fault me and my instructor see on video.

Plane board has helped considerably with my left wrist from impact to both arms straight.

At least this is what I think the problem is!!!!!!!
 
tongzilla

tongzilla

New
This is what I think about The Twistaway: it's a FIX! In today's world, 'real' teachers need to fix 'real' golfers. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

You can hit perfectly straight and powerful shots using it, but remember you're making a compensation.

At the end of the day, you want a Flat Left Wrist (not arched, or twisted away or whatever). And if you can't hit a straight shot with a Flat Left Wrist, there clearly is something else wrong in your stroke you got to fix. You have the option of making a compensation, or finding that other root cause. The option is yours!
 
B

BigBadDonkey

New
Birdie' I guess Brian is saying if you make sure your left thumb is under at the top position it will keep the face square and prevent twisting too much or it would be to the side as you look at it..... If the thumb is under, the weightpressure is moving directly onto the thumb more , hence stopping the swing.
Tongzilla or anyone, do you think some Pros have different wrist actions? e.g in between a hinging and bending back motion. (Diagonal) . Haas and Kenny Perry spring to mind?
Danny.
 
E

EdZ

New
quote:Originally posted by tongzilla

This is what I think about The Twistaway: it's a FIX! In today's world, 'real' teachers need to fix 'real' golfers. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

You can hit perfectly straight and powerful shots using it, but remember you're making a compensation.

At the end of the day, you want a Flat Left Wrist (not arched, or twisted away or whatever). And if you can't hit a straight shot with a Flat Left Wrist, there clearly is something else wrong in your stroke you got to fix. You have the option of making a compensation, or finding that other root cause. The option is yours!
Click to expand...

While I agree that it is a 'fix' in its extreme form (arched wrist), the subtle, slight 'twist' combined with extensor action to get to a 'flat' left wrist is a tremendous simplification which should not be overlooked. In fact, when combined with a proper grip, this is perhaps the easiest way to solid G.O.L.F.
 
E

EdZ

New
quote:Originally posted by Wolfman

I had the exact same problem - caused by several other faults.

Mostly a driver problem.

1. Left wrist was not flat - enough - with grip. Either take it at impact fix or test "flatness" like Brian does in his article.

2. Did not sustain lag - allowing left wrist to breakdown at impact closing the clubface

3. My right elbow wants to go to "punch" position during release - very hard to get to inside aft quadrant of ball from there.

#3 is the fault me and my instructor see on video.

Plane board has helped considerably with my left wrist from impact to both arms straight.

At least this is what I think the problem is!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Re: #3 - sounds like an over the top move. Check that your right forearm is set properly in line at address. Also, check that your right hand grip isn't too much in the fingers - too on 'top' of the shaft. Right shoulder DOWNPLANE to the inside corner.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Remember.....the club is OPEN on ALL BACKSWINGS.

Hooks REQUIRE closed faces....


.....so.......

do less closing on the downswing, smile, then start swinging farther left.
 
W

Wolfman

New
quote:Originally posted by EdZ

quote:Originally posted by Wolfman

I had the exact same problem - caused by several other faults.

Mostly a driver problem.

1. Left wrist was not flat - enough - with grip. Either take it at impact fix or test "flatness" like Brian does in his article.

2. Did not sustain lag - allowing left wrist to breakdown at impact closing the clubface

3. My right elbow wants to go to "punch" position during release - very hard to get to inside aft quadrant of ball from there.

#3 is the fault me and my instructor see on video.

Plane board has helped considerably with my left wrist from impact to both arms straight.

At least this is what I think the problem is!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Re: #3 - sounds like an over the top move. Check that your right forearm is set properly in line at address. Also, check that your right hand grip isn't too much in the fingers - too on 'top' of the shaft. Right shoulder DOWNPLANE to the inside corner.
Click to expand...

Video and The Golftec analyzer show that it isn't OTT. Usually I'm too far inside on the downswing (according to the analyzer) and my right elbow is out like I'm punching it (video).
 
tongzilla

tongzilla

New
quote:Originally posted by brianman

Remember.....the club is OPEN on ALL BACKSWINGS.

Hooks REQUIRE closed faces....


.....so.......

do less closing on the downswing, smile, then start swinging farther left.
Click to expand...

For an uncompensated stroke, is the clubface square to the plane at the top of the backswing?

Does 'square at the top' mean that the leading edge of the clubface is parallel to the inclined plane?
 
B

BigBadDonkey

New
Tried some stuff out, I also went back to the 'Stallion's ' type grip (my grip had become stronger without me knowing it), and ala back to straight shot, even a fade. Feels very stifflocked at the top though, but is straight not arched. I was very slightly cupped before.
Thanks for all ya tips, nice and straight now (thumbs up) .
 
tongzilla

tongzilla

New
quote:Originally posted by brianman

Leo....laying ON THE PLANE is 90 degrees open.
Click to expand...

Agree. And so it should be 90 degree open at the Top for a Swinger because of Startup Swivel.
One of your last posts said that the face needs to be closed at the top in order to hit a hook. I disagree. Less open, yes, but closed? No. Imagine where the face/leading edge would be pointing! Behind my back!
Which is the reason for me saying that 90 deg open (leading edge laying on plane) at the top is 'square' which reconciles the problem.


Moving on...
Don't want this to turn into another grip discussion but, I was studying a few swing sequences just now, looking at the top position, and noticed that for most players, their leading edge is closed relative to their flat left wrist. In other words, their left wrist isn't parallel to the leading edge. I tried it myself, and figured I need a seriously weak grip in order to have left wrist parallel with leading edge. Even looking at the posed photo of Brian in his Never Slice Again article, his left wrist/left arm (or forearm in Brian's case!!) isn't parallel with leading edge. (Coincidentally, but irrelavent, it is quite parallel to the top edge of clubface). Any comments?
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
One the first point Leo, you are right AND wrong.

The clubface should NEVER be closed at the top...I said more closed....;)

One the grip thought....Absolutely most players grip it "non-matching."

I just think SLICERS and HACKERS improve faster SOMETIMES with a matching grip.
 
M

MizunoJoe

New
How about just starting with a standard grip - 2.5 knuckles showing on left hand and left thumb in cup of right hand? Check ball compression and flight and adjust left hand as required. This works for standard or single wrist action and Swinging or Hitting. What does it matter what the orientation is at the Top or End, if the face is correct through the impact interval?
 
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