Nicklaus Hand Path

[natep]

I was checking out this video of Nicklaus at Augusta in 86. I must have watched it 30 times in a row just to hear the great impact again and again.

I thought his hand path in this swing was pretty interesting, it goes pretty much right at the ball from the start of the downswing, then turns in just before impact. I'm just wondering what you guys' thoughts are on his hand path and resulting effects it has on the tumble in this swing. Thanks.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Watson and Nicklaus have similar hand path where that do a late "under the table" move at the ball. The important thing to note about both is the width from face on they display in their hand path.

Also, that camera angle is not parallel to where the baseline of his swing plane is pointing. That will distort where we think his hand path is going toward.

 

[natep]

Yes, the late "under the table" move is what I was trying to describe. What's your thoughts on this? I've been playing around with different hand paths for the last year or so, and have had success different ways, but using the same type of handpath as Nicklaus above seems to be the most natural and dependable day in and day out for me. I go across at the top, then it "feels" like I'm backing it up all the way down (although on video I can see the late "under the table" move), my divots go well left and I have this kinda "wipey" impact feel. I've been hesitant to continue like this, but its hard to argue with the ballflight, which is just perfect, straight with a hint of fade in there.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Only a golfer could understand why another golfer would be hesitant to continue with something that gave him perfect ballflight.

 

[cwdlaw223]

Is the below the table top move a conscious move? What's the intent of such move with respect to the orientation and direction of the clubhead?

 

[Todd Dugan]

The hand swing is planar in that short area on either side of its lowest point. They have no choice, in a swing of force. When viewed from behind, within that plane, they will appear to move along a straight line. After all, a plane is a straight line. Concern yourselves with the horizontal direction of the hand plane in that impact zone, and not much else, pertaining to the trajectory of the hands during the swing.

 

[SteveT]

Watson and Nicklaus have similar hand path where that do a late "under the table" move at the ball. The important thing to note about both is the width from face on they display in their hand path.

Also, that camera angle is not parallel to where the baseline of his swing plane is pointing. That will distort where we think his hand path is going toward.

To achieve an "under-the-table" move to the ball at impact, you must not allow the wrists to rise. IOW, you must depress the hands going into final release.

What forces, or series of forces must be applied to the club handle to achieve the "under-the-table" positioning of the hands, arms and club handle going through final release and impact?

Are forces consciously applied, and is supination "tumble" torque manipulated in this manoever? Also, what is the role of the lower and upper hands?

 

[grahler]

SteveT,

Once again you have posted.
Once again your post does not relate to the topic IMO.

 

[SteveT]

SteveT,

Once again you have posted.
Once again your post does not relate to the topic IMO.

Okay .... exactly what is the "topic"? What do you find so objectionable to my questions for Kevin where he introduces the "under-the-table" concept for Watson and Nicklaus swings? Reveal your opinion; don't keep it a deep dark secret from us.

Thanks in advance....

 

[grahler]

Steve T,
up and left with the hands.

 

[SteveT]

Steve T,
up and left with the hands.

I didn't ask you for your opinion on the "under-the-table" move... I asked Kevin Shields. Btw... you still haven't explained why you think I'm off topic, in your opinion.

 

[grahler]

Steve T,
I am done posting. This is my last one because you post on every single thread on the forum. It just becomes tiresome Steve. Maybe folks just want to have a discussion and not listen to you explain to everyone how you know everything-I doubt I am the only one who is tired of your compulsive need to post on this forum.
Try to go a week or two without posting anything-you might learn from some of the nice people out in internet land.
I have never read one thing that you said that helped my game-unlike Brian/Kevin et al.

 

[SteveT]

Steve T,
I am done posting. .................

You should have made this decision before you started your silly personal attack on me and threadjacked natep's interesting topic. All you have done is made a fool of yourself expressing your feeeelings in public.... even though I tried to help you out.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Is the below the table top move a conscious move? What's the intent of such move with respect to the orientation and direction of the clubhead?

Try to imagine not doing it and what would happen!

 

[Kevin Shields]

To achieve an "under-the-table" move to the ball at impact, you must not allow the wrists to rise. IOW, you must depress the hands going into final release.

What forces, or series of forces must be applied to the club handle to achieve the "under-the-table" positioning of the hands, arms and club handle going through final release and impact?

Are forces consciously applied, and is supination "tumble" torque manipulated in this manoever? Also, what is the role of the lower and upper hands?

These are all questions for someone smarter than me. Call Nesbit if you really want the answer.

 

[cwdlaw223]

Try to imagine not doing it and what would happen!

Less vertical hand path? Not sure of the effect of the below the table top move.

 

[Erik_K]

Man, you watch a video like that and have to come away with just how awesome Jack was.

 

[trainerdug]

the sound...is incredible

 

[SteveT]

These are all questions for someone smarter than me. Call Nesbit if you really want the answer.

I don't think it's appropriate for me to call Nesbit since he is part of the Manzella science team. Perhaps you could discuss my questions with Brian and then decide if a call to Nesbit is warranted.

Alternatively, you or Jacobs could try to feel what forces you are intuitively applying to accomplish "tumble" and "under-the-table" actions. I would think an explanation is needed since each action is different and possibly even counter-active.

Perhaps you could make it an ASIII topic for analysis and discussion.

 

[drewyallop]

With respect to y'all y'all I sense a bit of a gang-up on "our" Steve. I did not think his question was unreasonable and Grahler seemed to be waiting for an opportunity to vent.

Back to topic!

What is the deviation of each hand at impact - radial deviation, ulnar deviation, or no deviation? Is there an optimum? What is sub-optimum? What is totally wrong?

What do the wrists, hands, forearms, and shoulders have to do to get the hands into the optimum deviations; into completely wrong deviations?

Have tried to figure this out on the range with no success.