Nicklaus Hand Path

[SteveT]

What is the deviation of each hand at impact - radial deviation, ulnar deviation, or no deviation? Is there an optimum? What is sub-optimum? What is totally wrong?

What do the wrists, hands, forearms, and shoulders have to do to get the hands into the optimum deviations; into completely wrong deviations?

Have tried to figure this out on the range with no success.

Tumble and it's timing is all in the application of the forces and torques applied on and by the arms and hands to achieve all those "deviations".

Some are now claiming they have achieved a continuous "feeel" of the downswing, but are still unable to define what forces they are applying. It's a case of "feedback" feel versus "feedforward" forces. Feeel is useless unless you know what you did to achieve those "feeels". Seems like most are still stuck in their feeel and can't understand the physics. Oh, well ....

 

[Tony D'Antonio]

Oh well, you tried Steve. We'll muddle through best we can.

 

[jake2]

To achieve an "under-the-table" move to the ball at impact, you must not allow the wrists to rise. IOW, you must depress the hands going into final release.

I do not quite get it. How are you supposed to depress the hands, i.e not allow wrists to rise?
I thought that you're supposed to go normal before impact?

 

[SteveT]

I do not quite get it. How are you supposed to depress the hands, i.e not allow wrists to rise?
I thought that you're supposed to go normal before impact?

Good point..... Maybe you can let your wrists rise when going normal with a driver and a full-blooded swing.

But maybe you must restrain going normal with short irons to achieve "under-the-table" positioning.

Perhaps Michael Jacobs should be the one to clarify the confusion, since he first came up with the idea.

 

[WoodbridgeGolf37]

I do not quite get it. How are you supposed to depress the hands, i.e not allow wrists to rise?
I thought that you're supposed to go normal before impact?

Normal just refers to force being applied tangential to the clubhead. That could be done with high-hands or low-hands.

I think Dufner's waggle is probably a good demonstration of low-hands/under the table.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0x2m-EWi910" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

But I'm just a reader...

 

[bluebird]

Does the clubhead shift off of it's plane when the handpath is shifted or does the clubhead stay on plane and open or close the clubface?

 

[SteveT]

Normal just refers to force being applied tangential to the clubhead. That could be done with high-hands or low-hands.

However, the rotative swing radius goes from the clubhead to somewhere in the upper torso at impact. The "normal" refers to that swing radius because the clubhead tangent is along the arc created by that radius.

If your hands are below that swing radius you are under-the-table. If you are along the swing radius you are on-the-table.

I think Dufner's waggle is probably a good demonstration of low-hands/under the table.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0x2m-EWi910" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Everybody's hand address position starts "under-the-table" and then deviate from that position during the downswing.

If you place your screen cursor at Dufner's hands at address and then watch what happens at impact, you will see his hands have risen so that his arms and club shaft are "on-the-table" while going normal. This is what I suggested happens for full-blooded driver swings... while the hands can stay under the table for wedge swings.

It's simple kinematics.... and perhaps Michael Jacobs can help clarify these issues.

 

[SteveT]

Does the clubhead shift off of it's plane when the handpath is shifted or does the clubhead stay on plane and open or close the clubface?

This is a good question, if I understand you correctly.

Handpath doesn't follow a "plane", it shifts based on the golfer's unique swing style. What you may be referring to is the orientation of the clubhead lagging behind the shaft during the initial phase of the downswing.

As you get deeper into the downswing, the lead arm will supinate the top hand and then axially rotate the clubface square to the ball at impact. I believe this is called the Nesbit "beta" torque.

Perhaps you can review your questions based on these definitions.

 

[WoodbridgeGolf37]

If you place your screen cursor at Dufner's hands at address and then watch what happens at impact.

Steve - I generally learn things from your comments and your last response was no different. However my Dufner comment regarding"under-the-table" referred to his waggle.

I recognize that the waggle isn't a demonstration of the forces in action, but seems a decent example of under the table - maybe a feel could be garnered by watching