No 6dof-3D - no chance.

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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Yesterday was a great day for lover of REAL golf swing information. One hour at PING with Dr. Paul Wood on the ENSO-pro machine and two hours plus with Phil Cheetham and his brother Steven. Here is a little review from the AMM Studio.

Lots of great information at both places. Including Jamie Sadlowski's 12 sensor 3D report!!

Here is a little review of the AMM session:

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TbGH4nzMB3s?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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Lifter

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Brian,

I am ecstatic to see that 1:30 into that video, you advocate turning the hips and tush well behind the tush line.

Hooray! That one gets ten Lifter thumbs up. Glad we're on the same page there.

I have one little comment to add, though. I think you'd agree that if the golfer allows his left heel to come off the ground and kicks his left knee in, then that greatly increases his ability to turn his hips behind the tush line.

This might not apply to Lindsay specifically because she's a young female and might be very flexible. But for those of us at home who aren't nearly as flexible (like me) lifting the left heel and kicking in the left knee might really help a lot.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Lifter,

I have advocated these types of things since 1987. Some people just don't have any idea what I have taught and currently teach to real golfers.

Max pivot.

Courses aren't getting any shorter.
 
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Lifter

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Just thought it was worth mentioning that little footnote on the left heel and knee because they weren't mentioned in the video. I'm sure you didn't want your quick presentation to run on too long.
 
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Robbierob99

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I'd pay a LOT of money to have access to that stuff regularly... A LOT. How much those systems cost? Just curious.

Absolutely Incredible "quick review" & I am certain it'll help an already great player (Lindsey) get even better & QUICK.


Awesome, Awesome stuff.
 
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Robbierob99

New
Also, I can't believe you give this any of this stuff away free... Lots of people are sure glad that you do, but you don't get enough credit for that. So here ya have it: Thanks.
 
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spktho

New
I wanted to go to the range today and hit balls, but it somehow seems as though it might not be too productive.





Nah, I'm going anyway:p . One of these days I have to get on a similar device.


Doing one of these for your Golf magazine or Golf SI pieces would go over real well too.
 
Michael Jacobs

Michael Jacobs

Super Moderator
We have 6 dof available everyday. 12 sensor AMM. After logging a lot of hours on it and 3DOF, I really recommend wireless 3Dof with a force plate to see translations. When you add the other 3 dof on an everyday student they have a difficult time with all of the info as it is much easier to see on a force plate.

In a short time I am pretty sure we will have 6dof on a wireless system that includes the lead arm, it will produce large amounts of info and the expertise of the golf instructor will be even more necessary
 
mgranato

mgranato

New
Lifter said:
Just thought it was worth mentioning that little footnote on the left heel and knee because they weren't mentioned in the video. I'm sure you didn't want your quick presentation to run on too long.
Click to expand...

Lift, are you getting a sense to why real research and understanding of the golf swing is not done with a single one-angle Casio or Phantom camera? To accurately measure and "see" the movements and sequences of a real golf swing, you NEED the right equipment and absolutely have to divorce relying on what it looks like on camera.

On the other hand, if someone's after a look and not concerned about much else, a camera is all you'll ever need.
 
lia41985

lia41985

New member
Someone should tell Tiger and Jack they had no chance to do what they did without using someone's system to hit balls in a laboratory.

Will golf just increasingly become a data dump?

This notion that with these sorts of devices that assessing rather than guessing is going on...well, that's a big assumption. Too much information could be bad for teacher and student.

But whatever helps, I suppose.

I love Lindsay's free flowing and athletic swing. I wish you and her all the best, Brian.
 
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spktho

New
lia41985 said:
Will golf just increasingly become a data dump?
Click to expand...

Isn't that a slippery slope, though?

There's the argument where a teacher with data on players' swings will make a statement like "the best players do______________." Someone will then ask "Where's your proof?".

Not enough data or too much data?

Ya, the best players the Earth have seen in the past have developed their swings without the technology, but could modern players not improve their swing and ballstriking quicker with it?
 
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ekennedy

New
I may actually understand what you are implying, Lia...

I had the same question when the two Jim McLean graphs were shown on a different thread.

What if the graph that showed an optimal sequence resulted in the worst shot?

It's a legit question.
 
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cwdlaw223

New
mgranato said:
Lift, are you getting a sense to why real research and understanding of the golf swing is not done with a single one-angle Casio or Phantom camera? To accurately measure and "see" the movements and sequences of a real golf swing, you NEED the right equipment and absolutely have to divorce relying on what it looks like on camera.

On the other hand, if someone's after a look and not concerned about much else, a camera is all you'll ever need.
Click to expand...

My favorite phrase is "stable impact." That's good for some people, but it lacks a tremendous amount of precision. Most importantly, none of those hacks have anything close to stable except shooting over 90 and missing fairways and greens. Pathetic. Those people don't want numbers, they want adjectives so they're never proven wrong.
 
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cwdlaw223

New
lia41985 said:
Someone should tell Tiger and Jack they had no chance to do what they did without using someone's system to hit balls in a laboratory.

Will golf just increasingly become a data dump?

This notion that with these sorts of devices that assessing rather than guessing is going on...well, that's a big assumption. Too much information could be bad for teacher and student.

But whatever helps, I suppose.

I love Lindsay's free flowing and athletic swing. I wish you and her all the best, Brian.
Click to expand...

Can you imagine trying to swing with 24 micro moves in your head? The Frankenstein golfers just want pieces and never, ever discuss the athletic whole. Heck, they can't even tell in a sentence or two what drives or what holds unless they describe the entire golfer just to cover all of their bases. Impact is an adjective and guess for them.
 
lia41985

lia41985

New member
I'd rather study the athleticism of a savant than etch a sketch someone's kinematic graph. That's just me, though.

Call me old fashioned.

oldfashioned-590x375.jpg


The hype about these machines is more like Kool Aid

kool_aid_man_glass.jpg
 
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dbl

New
Lia, what are you on? "These machines" can be used for evil or good; they can provide false-knowledge to the less able instructor. I see nothing in the presentation(s) here that warrants your comments.
 
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