No Contest.

[TROYNYGOLFER]

Other Forum members,

Am I off base here?

Frankly, in this student's opinion, I do not understand why you have given this so much of your time. You originally outlined another instance of mainstream golf instruction screwing up. Birly is reasonably happy with the status quo, and chimed in you should be at least more diplomatic and preferably, accepting of other schools of thought. You rejected his criticism, perhaps more harshly than necessarily, but this is your site and that is your prerogative.

We are not happy with the status quo, which is why we are here. If we wanted to follow some ass-kissing PC dialogue, we would not be here. Birly has apparently found better teachers, or is simply far more talented than I am. I, for one, am pissed that thousands of dollars, and more importantly, two frigging years of my valuable time were wasted by "PGA certified" instructors, local "name" teachers, and one useless golf school at a Vermont ski resort. Your point, as I understand it, is that far too many golfers have been down my road and abandoned the game. I agree, I am friends with two such people.

One hour with a GTE attendee, John Graham, did more for me than two years of mainstream instruction. Courtesy of a great wife and children, I now have two gift certificates for John, and another one for Mike Jacobs. Results count and that is all I care about. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[rogerdodger]

Does'nt the fact that handicaps have not gone down support, at least statistically. the position set out by Brian? Not sure what this debate is about. Just read new Golf Digest, same stuff that they published thirty years ago.

 

[macduffer]

Does'nt the fact that handicaps have not gone down support, at least statistically. the position set out by Brian? Not sure what this debate is about. Just read new Golf Digest, same stuff that they published thirty years ago.

Up to a point. But then, if only 11% have taken lessons lately, logically the quality of teaching can only have very limited influence on handicaps.

 

[rogerdodger]

Acknowledged, but still handicaps have not gone down. Barkley has a bad swing that was not improved at all by Haney. Haney was hired to fix him, ie the Haney fix. He failed. Ultimately this argument comes down to who should be responsible, the student or the teacher. Brian at least acknowledges this responsibility and wants his students to hit the ball better immediately. I think it is awful refreshing to have a teacher admit that he has the ultimate responsibility for his student's improvement. If I am a great mountain climber and hire a guide for Everest who leads me into a crevasse and certain death, he better not say it was'nt his fault. Teachers are guides, paying one 500 an hour and having him blame the student for not being able to do what he says is bull. I take Brian's point on this thread to be exactly that.

 

[TheWoat]

Up to a point. But then, if only 11% have taken lessons lately, logically the quality of teaching can only have very limited influence on handicaps.

Just a thought, but maybe if teaching pros had a better track record, that number would be higher than 11 percent.
Personally, Ive heard nothing but negative things from the people I know who have taken lessons. The worst story was hearing that a slice OB was caused by an "anticipation of failure"...

 

[jpeck]

Just wondering...

Dear birly-shirly,

Are you (also) Todd Dugan? Just wondering.

 

[birly-shirly]

You deserve an answer.

First, would you mind elaborating on why you ask the question?

 

[jpeck]

You deserve an answer.

First, would you mind elaborating on why you ask the question?

Sure.

1. Todd Dugan and birly-shirly joined around the same time.

2. birly-shirly supported Todd Dugan when Todd was getting 'wised up'.

3. There are stylistic features common to the writing of both Todd Dugan and birly-shirly.

4. Some birly-shirly posts are written in a different style. Note the lack of capitalisation birly-shirly uses at the beginning of this thread. To me it seems to be an attempt at disguise. However, once embroiled in the thread, the usual style is resumed.

5. Both Todd Dugan and birly-shirly invoke similar emotional responses from other members. Note the way they both rub Steve Khatib the wrong way.

6. The Brian Vs birly-shirly thing seems to me to be a bit useless for birly-shirly, unless he is trying to 'get back' at Brian for some reason, and score back a point (see my point #2 above). Otherwise, after an initial exchange I would expect a reasonable person to say 'ok, we disagree', and go onto something else.

7. If you were going to try to take Brian down in any debate/discussion it would be safer to do it from behind a screen name in case you made a fool of yourself.

 

[Steve Khatib]

Yes, Jpeck.

You illustrate my point about these time wasters who are bored because it is snowing or raining at home and post stupidity with no basis to back up their remarks.

 

[slash]

Sure.

1. Todd Dugan and birly-shirly joined around the same time.

2. birly-shirly supported Todd Dugan when Todd was getting 'wised up'.

3. There are stylistic features common to the writing of both Todd Dugan and birly-shirly.

4. Some birly-shirly posts are written in a different style. Note the lack of capitalisation birly-shirly uses at the beginning of this thread. To me it seems to be an attempt at disguise. However, once embroiled in the thread, the usual style is resumed.

5. Both Todd Dugan and birly-shirly invoke similar emotional responses from other members. Note the way they both rub Steve Khatib the wrong way.

6. The Brian Vs birly-shirly thing seems to me to be a bit useless for birly-shirly, unless he is trying to 'get back' at Brian for some reason, and score back a point (see my point #2 above). Otherwise, after an initial exchange I would expect a reasonable person to say 'ok, we disagree', and go onto something else.

7. If you were going to try to take Brian down in any debate/discussion it would be safer to do it from behind a screen name in case you made a fool of yourself.

Birly

I'm on the edge of my seat with this new twist. I can't breathe. What an outrageous accusation.
Birly , light up that keyboard and defend yourself . Slay this cambuslang upstart . Not a yard of retreat. Let all think twice before they dare try impugn your character again. Blast him Birly.

 

[spktho]

I'm sure BM can compare their IP addys.

 

[Shot Limit]

This thread is getting computer game weird man.

 

[vjsinger]

Hello!! Now I'll read this thread! Beer ready!

 

[footwedge]

Birley, you in there? The bands starting to pack up, come on you can do it!

 

[Tom Bartlett]

</EMBED>


</EMBED></P>

 

[TROYNYGOLFER]

Jeopardy! Think Music, 1960s 1984-1997

Alex, I'll take Top Fifty Golf Instructors for $1,000

 

[spktho]

Agreed Footwedge. Please edit your post to remove my post.

 

[birly-shirly]

My second question to Brian Manzella

Where 'dit go?

First it was just the odd post. Then, what, about 16 pages of discussion just disappeared. To be replaced by a half-dozen lines of YOUR summary. Written from YOUR point of view, natch Now it's gone altogether.

Now, forgive me if I get some of this wrong. It's hard for me to check now, isn't it. But wasn't I getting my ass, like, totally kicked? Never made a single point, did I? Talking utter baloney and BS, wasn't I? From pure embarrassment, I should have been pleading with you to take that thread down. But you know that I wasn't.

I also think sharp eyed readers will have noticed that your "Study. Go make a living" thread got posted up just as our discussion got taken down. Your thoughtful readers will know why.

They'll also now understand, if they didn't already, why I insisted on a written format for our final discussion.

So. My question is this.

By reference to what just happened here, what makes this in your opinion "the best place in the world to discuss golf" and what makes you such a great debater?

I'm about to head off on holiday for a week with no internet access. Of course, I have to wonder what will be here, or what will be left, when I get back. But I think one of your conditions was that we BOTH answer our questions. So, before I'm accused of ducking my own question, I'll leave my answer below. No peeking now...






A. Editing privileges.

 

[caedus]

Where 'dit go?

First it was just the odd post. Then, what, about 16 pages of discussion just disappeared. To be replaced by a half-dozen lines of YOUR summary. Written from YOUR point of view, natch Now it's gone altogether.

Now, forgive me if I get some of this wrong. It's hard for me to check now, isn't it. But wasn't I getting my ass, like, totally kicked? Never made a single point, did I? Talking utter baloney and BS, wasn't I? From pure embarrassment, I should have been pleading with you to take that thread down. But you know that I wasn't.

I also think sharp eyed readers will have noticed that your "Study. Go make a living" thread got posted up just as our discussion got taken down. Your thoughtful readers will know why.

They'll also now understand, if they didn't already, why I insisted on a written format for our final discussion.

So. My question is this.

By reference to what just happened here, what makes this in your opinion "the best place in the world to discuss golf" and what makes you such a great debater?

I'm about to head off on holiday for a week with no internet access. Of course, I have to wonder what will be here, or what will be left, when I get back. But I think one of your conditions was that we BOTH answer our questions. So, before I'm accused of ducking my own question, I'll leave my answer below. No peeking now...






A. Editing privileges.

You crack me up Birley , all time classic post. Hey BM , you gonna let off some steam and smoke one out of the ballpark , cause Birley just smoked one right over center field

 

[ZAP]

Just in case no one noticed this site is called BrianManzella.com. I for one feel like I am a privileged fly on the wall most of the time. If the guy wants to delete any thread he does not like he is well within his rights to do so. To come here and call someone out on their own forum is a little more than ballsy IMO.

Have a nice holiday.