ok, here's a friendly observation.....

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Maybe we should get the 'high posters' from each site together and have a tournament. Then we can see who can apply what they have learned and if that produces the best results. Might be fun.


Maybe we should just forget about competing against one another and just get on with our own individual goals. There seems to be this big drama about proving the others wrong. At the end of the day who gives a damn? It's all about people improving their own golf, no matter what the direction. If someone, anyone, everyone, has the capability of doing just that then we are all that bit more fortunate.

Merry Xmas everyone
 
An interesting observation...

I wonder at times how posters can jump from topic to topic, have questions (one would think about their own swing most of the time) and have so many topics going....

Since I have after a long study decided that I internet understanding challenged, I will read more than post, try to understand how one concept or idea can be defined a dozen different ways that seems to contradict each other and more important if this is so important, where the heck in my golf stroke is this and which of the twelve is it?:rolleyes: :mad:

The best that my unscientific guess-a-mate is that only about 5% of the posters have really improved via the internet golf instruction. Some obviously have a better understanding, but score wise it doesn't seem that that many have improved. Most that have improved seem to have had in person contact at some point which seems greatly aid in the translation.

Practicing can be a good idea, Practicing the correctly is great.

2007 goal, replace rugs in living room and den to repair the divots:( Ceiling and walls will have to wait.:confused:
 
Maybe we should get the 'high posters' from each site together and have a tournament. Then we can see who can apply what they have learned and if that produces the best results. Might be fun.

Yeah, you could call it The First Annual High Postersium. Charge a shlt load of money and do a video. Unless, of course, it is Top Secret information like how and when to use smiley faces.:D
 
I hit balls 2-3 times a week and play at least once a week(nice living in the South). However, I played just as much 5 years ago when I discovered the golfing machine. My scores then were in the mid 90's with the occasional high 80 or low 100. Now my scores are typically from 76-84, with the occasional 74(Still reaching for that elusive par round). I also play tips now as opposed to playing the front tees. 7 iron distance went from 145-150 to 170.

I discovered TGM on the old Free golf info site and although Brian appeared to be irritating some people, I found what he was preaching to be of great interest, and couldn't find myself able to argue his concepts. Understanding lag, bent right wrist, etc., then allowed me to go to the range and practice correctly instead of just beating balls, and flipping my hands in an effort to lift the ball up.

I go to the range now and I will say that 8,9 out of ten people I see practicing have no idea what they are doing or how to properly strike a golf ball. Are they just ingraining bad habits?

Reading what Brian, Michael, Ted, and Lynn had to say and then applying it on the course was best for me. In a period of about 2 years I blew by all of my golf buddies and started beating them all like a drum regularly.

Read, learn, and then as Michael says, go to the range and apply...
 
I have been fairly active on this board since last Summer and to be honest, I like the fact that a lot of different people post frequently on this site. I learn a lot on this forum and would hate to see people start fading away.

And, I might add that those with the higher post count typically are the first ones to help a golfer who is struggling with their game. Additionally, post count tend to increase during the winter when golfers are confined to their basements! Finally, If you do have a swing flaw, beating balls on the range may actually be a bad thing as repeating bad habits only make the swing worse.

I would encourage people to post as often as they like as there are a lot worse things in this world that people could be doing :).
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Well....

What Mike was saying is this:

Some of the folks who post a lot on some sites CAN'T PLAY A LICK, but are arguing points with people who know as much or more and CAN PLAY A LICK.

THOSE people should go hit some balls and then report back.

:)
 
when i see a poster arguing over something like a "stationary" head and then subsequently watch him make a full swing and almost fall down, it causes me pause......

that's what i have a problem with....posters arguing over minutia when they can't produce something that looks golflike......
 
I hit balls 2-3 times a week and play at least once a week(nice living in the South). However, I played just as much 5 years ago when I discovered the golfing machine. My scores then were in the mid 90's with the occasional high 80 or low 100. Now my scores are typically from 76-84, with the occasional 74(Still reaching for that elusive par round). I also play tips now as opposed to playing the front tees. 7 iron distance went from 145-150 to 170.

I discovered TGM on the old Free golf info site and although Brian appeared to be irritating some people, I found what he was preaching to be of great interest, and couldn't find myself able to argue his concepts. Understanding lag, bent right wrist, etc., then allowed me to go to the range and practice correctly instead of just beating balls, and flipping my hands in an effort to lift the ball up.

I go to the range now and I will say that 8,9 out of ten people I see practicing have no idea what they are doing or how to properly strike a golf ball. Are they just ingraining bad habits?

Reading what Brian, Michael, and others had to say and then applying it on the course was best for me. In a period of about 2 years I blew by all of my golf buddies and started beating them all like a drum regularly.

Read, learn, and then as Michael says, go to the range and apply...

This is what it's all about, congrats. I am about to undergo a similar effort. I'm rejoining the gym in January and am going to find more time to improve my golf. I'll be using this forum and others as my gospels and can only hope i achieve the ecellent improvements you have.
 
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I do agree with Michael that some people get pretty deep into pretty complex topics. I kind of stick to the basics, try to stay on plane, maintain lag, and have a bent right wrist. I'm not really sure what accumulators I'm using, etc. etc.

I love the golfing machine, but I can't quote it verse for verse and often times I need a translator..

Now if Brian or somebody else, can just get me to finish on my left side maybe I can shoot that 72:)
 
when i see a poster arguing over something like a "stationary" head and then subsequently watch him make a full swing and almost fall down, it causes me pause......

that's what i have a problem with....posters arguing over minutia when they can't produce something that looks golflike......

Don't know exactly why, but read it, an image pops into head, sides begin to hurt from laughing so hard... too bad it true...
 

Steve Khatib

Super Moderator
Mike you are right There are way too many brown shorts on the internet!
i read post after post on several golf instruction sites and several golfing machine sites......it is unbelieveable how much detail is discussed, especially at the latter sites....i am amazed at the collective knowledge of swing mechanics and swing mechanics minutia by the golf forum community as a whole.....

that being said, it is also amazing to then see these very same people (who seem to be chapter and verse GM proponents and have an encyclopedic knowledge of all the classic golf swings) execute a pitch shot.....or make a full swing....

some of you need to get out of the forums and onto the driving range....if you apply 1/2 the effort toward your actual stroke as you devote toward book study, your journey would go much faster....

now, if some of you see this post as egotistical or out of line....i'm sorry.....i guess i could go into detail about how i never get to play much golf but shot a 4 birdie, one eagle 66 two days ago during a gambling game.....i would never do that, however.....

my simple point is that sharpening your understanding of what zone homer really intended hinge action to be in won't help your execution as much as actual dirt flying....this i don't think anyone can deny....teachers, researchers, and guys who just want to be perceived as golf experts are exempt from this discussion
 
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Guess it depends,

on what your journey is.

For years I consumed the monthly ration of newsstand golf instruction - and hacked at the ball. Then I stumbled on TGM via web forum, hello FLW 3D impact, and yes, pivot centre :rolleyes: .

These are things I personally could not have affforded ($$$) to learn of by personal instruction with an A.I. The range nearest to me costs $10 a bucket (75 balls). The nearest dome is obscenely expensive. Just playing golf is expensive enough for me.

I absolutely play more consistently now as a result of browsing these sites and participating in the discussions of TGM related stuff. I had a decent athletic motion before but simply knowing the FLW & 3D impact stuff improved my game.

I don't need to be able to produce 125mph clubhead speed, to discuss the best way to achieve it - do I?

As the old saying goes, talk is cheap.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
What it really DEPENDS on....

Is the THESIS of Mike's observation.

And that THESIS is this:

Talk is cheap.

For example: Talk about who can "out teach" who. Talk about Who can "out play" who. Talk about Who can "hit it better" than who.

Mike Finney once saw a really nice guy, who really knew The Golfing Machine text, finally hit some balls after just "reading" the nice guy talk about the golf swing for a couple of years.

It wasn't pretty.

Now, Sonic Doom (and whatever your real name is--don't you just hate screennames), this does not mean that that particular person couldn't teach or talk about the swing because he obviously couldn't DO it. George Hibbard, bless his heart, has one of his less than pretty swings plastered all over the internet for all to vomit to, but I would bet hard cash that he can teach a lot better than he could make whatever particular swing he was trying to make that day.

Mike Finney knows this.

But--and Mike can correct me if I am wrong--what Mike was talking about was AT WHAT LEVEL OF THE CONVERSATION SOME PEOPLE NEED TO GET THE HECK OUT OF THE WAY.

For example, George Hibbard is not any older or anymore "broken down" (so to speak) than our friend Don Villavaso. When Donald plays golf these days, he doesn't putt, because he can't walk to and from the greens. Having said that, Don's 2006 golf swing makes him look like Carlos Franco compared to George. Don has also given 1000's more lessons than George. Don has also gone to more seminars, had more personal access to guys like Ben Doyle and myself, and also taught in a more fiercely competitive situation than George.

[note: I am NOT picking on George, I am using him as an example]

The point to all of this is simple, in a debate about what REALLY WORKS in the Golf Swing, George needs to step aside if Don says something is so. Well, George can question it, he questions me all the time, but at some point, standing toe-to-toe with Don on a point about golf, well, folks, Don wins. Same as Donald vs. Ben Doyle.

Sorta like ME arguing with TIGER about what works in Putting.;)

Sometimes, a man needs to know his limitations.

There is LOTS of talk on this internet, and in the real world. Proof is entirely another matter.

It WAS EASY for some folks to CLAIM they out taught some other folks once at a golf school. The PROOF of who out taught WHO or didn't, was all caught on VIDEO. The video never surfaced for one reason. It simply did not show what was so easy to claim in WORDS.

That's why no one is EVER interested in my idea of a Golf Swing Debate Challenge. Or "Teach Off."

Because it is much easier to TALK then to show up and produce.

What Mike wasn't saying is that you CAN'T LEARN from the internet or Video. Surely you can.

But, unless you can put up, sometimes you ought to shut up.
 
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I don't think this is just a problem within your community but from the golfing community as a whole. I have seen plenty of instructors that cannot swing a club to save their life. On the flip side I have met a few good players that won't even touch instruction.
 
"Bless his heart." Not. I give you permission, Brian, to drop that. What is "plastered" on the internet, you should know by now, is not my swing.

My own real, GH, (MA) working swing does not look like your swing [it is necessarily a lot shorter back and through not only due to range of motion issues BUT because of my build - wide shoulders, short arms and WRT of 40" requiring a very steep lie angle] but it functions like yours, and it has efficiency and integtrity like yours. (As a means of understanding it, from now on for the rest of your life, stand in 5" high platform shoes for all the golf shots you will ever play for the rest of your life.)

I have noted recently how you yourself are coming around to concepts I have been "preaching" for some time before you took up on them and very much admire your willingness to be open to them AND to challenge established thoughts.

I'd be REAL open to a competitive teaching challenge with you: with a grin on my face. There would only be two winners and no losers.

Be well, Brian, and happy new year and continued success to you.



You deserve the accolades you receive here, but you do sell me short
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
George...

I was only using you as an example becuase at least you can man up on your own.

And you did.

I KNOW that wasn't your real swing, but I also know that Big Don couldn't look like that trying. Btw, Big Don is about 350 lbs., is 75 yrs old, and can't harly stand for a couple of minutes at a time.

Big Don and I once won a HUGE Pro-Pro event, so trust me he can play. No less than Ben Doyle was impressed by his students ball-striking skills. So he can really teach.

I have no doubt YOU would show up for a teach off, you have some guts. Others, well....all hype.

Trust me George, I know you can teach, and thanks for the thick enough skin to be used as my example to make Mike's (and my) point.

A point I know you agree on as well.

Thanks and Happy New Year Ole Buddy,

BriManz ;)
 
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