On plane backswing issues

Status
Not open for further replies.
G

GeoffDickson

New
I know that an on-plane backswing is not the be all and end all, but I hit the ball very poorly whenever it gets way to the inside.

Here is what I am trying to do:
Take the club ‘straight back’ for as long as I can.
Utilize a weak right hand grip IMHO, a strong right hand just invites dragging it low and to the inside.
Lift arms up
90* to the spine shoulder rotation (as per Monte’s long standing advice).
c0ck wrists with minimal/no ‘’palmar flexion’ of right wrist during takeaway.

…and as you can see from this video, I only occasionally manage to get it right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA4I5r44LjI

I am doing everything I can to get above-the-plane and can barely get on plane.

Which of the above am I failing to implement correctly?
What else can I try?

Some times I am just on plane until club is parallel to ground, but am under plane in the top half of backswing...how does that happen?

Note: the camera height is probably a few inches higher than my wrists at address. Is there a parallax issue?
 
Last edited:
Erik_K

Erik_K

New
Link is dead, Geoff.

Without viewing the link, the classic drill(s) & thoughts I like to use for the takeaway are as follows:

Hold the club so the grip end rests against your belly button (requires you to choke down a lot) & take the club back. You need a small weight shift to the right instep and then the rest is the core and shoulders turning. IMO there isn't much the hands and forearms are doing at this point. The grip end stays on your naval for this drill. Avoid snatching the club away with your hands and wrists. Via the mirror you will notice that the club is between the forearms

Another drill is envisioning handing a football (American football) off to a running back.

If you have some lasers and/or flashlights you can make up a little training aid such that the 'club' (this is just the flashlight really) traces a straight line back for the first foot or two for the takeaway. I believe you could also tape on a laser to the hosel or something and that might do the trick as well.

I am not a huge fan of float loading, but if/when I am really struggling with the takeaway you can also try pushing against the handle (see Dufner's swing) which is akin to a float loading procedure. So the handle moves first and the club head catches up.

Erik
 
A

art

New
GeoffDickson said:
Thanks Erik.

I am thinking i have 'too much arms' in my swing, especially early on.

I think the link is working now?
Click to expand...



Dear Geoff,

The link IS working now, and to me, your videos were very informative regarding beliefs/hypotheses/test results that IMO have shown a very close relationship of TEMPO/RHYTHM, with my favorite subject, dynamic balance and stability.

You have a very disciplined and repeatable 'dynamic' appearance from the videos provided BUT because of not establishing the 'Bumpy Back', and the associated stability margins, your right hip is TOO anxious to rotate and this slightly increased angular velocity of your back swing which DRIVES the early hip rotation, also encourages undesirable down swing kinematic sequence changes.

In some earlier posts, you wrote of success with keeping your back to the target longer, and IMO opinion, reestablishing this will allow you the 'transition' time to 'slightly' lay off the club shaft at the top, and allow you to establish your desired down swing plane.

One last thought Geoff, the back swing and down swing planes YOU are capable of attaining have a lot to do with YOUR unique ranges of motion of many of the upper body, shoulder girdles and arm/wrists, which i n turn, are VERY affected by the TEMPO and RHYTHM of the back swing, IMO, an area needing a great deal more scientific attention.

To get this ALL started, please just BB, and to start the back swing RELEASE your knees to initiate the bodies clockwise rotation. Just 'releasing' this way, assures a NATURAL, body-unique angular velocity, much to the liking of the complicated kinematic sequences that will follow the rest of the back swing, the transition AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, the down swing.

Best regards, always,
art
 
Michael Jacobs

Michael Jacobs

Super Moderator
art said:
Dear Geoff,

The link IS working now, and to me, your videos were very informative regarding beliefs/hypotheses/test results that IMO have shown a very close relationship of TEMPO/RHYTHM, with my favorite subject, dynamic balance and stability.

You have a very disciplined and repeatable 'dynamic' appearance from the videos provided BUT because of not establishing the 'Bumpy Back', and the associated stability margins, your right hip is TOO anxious to rotate and this slightly increased angular velocity of your back swing which DRIVES the early hip rotation, also encourages undesirable down swing kinematic sequence changes.

In some earlier posts, you wrote of success with keeping your back to the target longer, and IMO opinion, reestablishing this will allow you the 'transition' time to 'slightly' lay off the club shaft at the top, and allow you to establish your desired down swing plane.

One last thought Geoff, the back swing and down swing planes YOU are capable of attaining have a lot to do with YOUR unique ranges of motion of many of the upper body, shoulder girdles and arm/wrists, which i n turn, are VERY affected by the TEMPO and RHYTHM of the back swing, IMO, an area needing a great deal more scientific attention.

To get this ALL started, please just BB, and to start the back swing RELEASE your knees to initiate the bodies clockwise rotation. Just 'releasing' this way, assures a NATURAL, body-unique angular velocity, much to the liking of the complicated kinematic sequences that will follow the rest of the back swing, the transition AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, the down swing.

Best regards, always,
art
Click to expand...

Art probably time to start watching some live teaching. I would check the left hand grip and have more left wrist extension on the backswing and that would change the shape of the club movement
 
G

GeoffDickson

New
Rick Dandy said:
Geoff,

Steepen your lead arm in relation to the ground coming into the hit.

Rick
Click to expand...

Thanks Rick. So this would have the effect on increasing the angle between arm and shaft? Brian commented on Adam Scott's ability to do this on this recent video: Adam Scott Solid Irons Golf Tip - Video - GOLF.com

...and it is interesting that MJ wants me to get the grip more into my left hand fingers, which Brian also refers to in the video as away of getting into the Adam Scott position.

Looks like I have both Rick and my wife wishing I was more like Adam Scott. Such high standards.
 
Last edited:
G

GeoffDickson

New
Art,

Good to hear from you. Thanks for keeping an eye out for me.

I must admit I have not been concentrating on BBKIB because I am determined to improve my backswing swing-plane...and I have only room for so many swingthoughts.

I have been thinking that part of my backswing-plane issues might be related to an quick/anxious hip turn. Your comments reinforce that all is not well with my hips.

So whilst i have not been concentrating on BBKIB, earlier this afternoon - before i read your post above - I updated my golf notes which is where I list key swing thoughts for each aspect of the swing. You will be pleased to know that BBKIB still gets a mention :)

PS....I have the new Flightscope app which measures lateral distance. This will make our next experiment a little easier to conduct. I am traveling through the US for the next few weeks so I will be ready for more BBKIB experimentation in June.
 
Last edited:
A

art

New
GeoffDickson said:
Art,

Good to hear from you. Thanks for keeping an eye out for me.

I must admit I have not been concentrating on BBKIB because I am determined to improve my backswing swing-plane...and I have only room for so many swingthoughts.

I have been thinking that part of my backswing-plane issues might be related to an quick/anxious hip turn. Your comments reinforce that all is not well with my hips.

So whilst i have not been concentrating on BBKIB, earlier this afternoon - before i read your post above - I updated my golf notes which is where I list key swing thoughts for each aspect of the swing. You will be pleased to know that BBKIB still gets a mention :)

PS....I have the new Flightscope app which measures lateral distance. This will make our next experiment a little easier to conduct. I am traveling through the US for the next few weeks so I will be ready for more BBKIB experimentation in June.
Click to expand...

Dear Geoff,

Will your US travels take you to Los Angeles ?? There are several golf facilities within a few miles of the airport and I would be honored to provide the transportation if only for a few hour lay over.

An over night opportunity would allow us to have the opportunity for me to 'impose' on Billy McKinney at Marbella CC about an hours drive from the airport, or switch to the airport in Orange County, where again, I can provide the transportation.

If not, maybe a phone call would be possible to discuss some of this in more detail.

Best regards,
art
 
J

JonWil

New
Hummmm I don't know Geoff you seem to be nailing that net the same spot time after time with only one shot a little left of the others. I'm just saying.
 
R

Rick Dandy

New
Proper Acceleration

GeoffDickson said:
Thanks Rick. So this would have the effect on increasing the angle between arm and shaft? Brian commented on Adam Scott's ability to do this on this recent video: Adam Scott Solid Irons Golf Tip - Video - GOLF.com

...and it is interesting that MJ wants me to get the grip more into my left hand fingers, which Brian also refers to in the video as away of getting into the Adam Scott position.

Looks like I have both Rick and my wife wishing I was more like Adam Scott. Such high standards.
Click to expand...

Yes, an inidication of precision within acceleration.

Also, in addition to MJ's great post, introducing left wrist extension adjusts the shape of movement of the club, and changes how the center of pressure moves from the ground up. My guess is the club will feel lighter and require less effort to contain and send it, and your stance will balance out.

PS Once in 1992, Tiger and I were in the same parking lot in Chino.
 
G

GeoffDickson

New
Rick Dandy said:
My guess is the club will feel lighter and require less effort to contain and send it, and your stance will balance out.
Click to expand...

The club does feel heavier than what it should...and seems to take alot of effort to cock my wrists....hence its very easy for me to keep the clubhead low (and therefore inside/ underplane)
 
G

GeoffDickson

New
art said:
Dear Geoff,

Will your US travels take you to Los Angeles ?? There are several golf facilities within a few miles of the airport and I would be honored to provide the transportation if only for a few hour lay over.

...
Best regards,
art
Click to expand...

Nothing but the shortest of layovers in LAX...otherwise i would have already suggested the same thing.
 
G

GeoffDickson

New
JonWil said:
Hummmm I don't know Geoff you seem to be nailing that net the same spot time after time with only one shot a little left of the others. I'm just saying.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the complement...My handicap ranges from 5.5-6.5, so I have got most of the basics at least half correct...but I am committed to being a scratch golfer, so the margin for error is pretty small. My smash factors are generally comparable to the PGA standard, but ball striking could definitely improve...and my theory is that these problems start with an underplane takeaway (notwithstanding grip and stance issues preceding the takeaway).
 
G

GeoffDickson

New
Soft draw messages:


Avoid popout
Lagging clubhead takeaway.
In and under with left shoulder. Avoid flat shoulder turn.
Right elbow higher than left. Avoid over-rotation of LAFW.

Did i miss anything?
 
G

golfie

New
Getting up

Geoff,

You might want to try scrunching your right shoulder up towards your right ear on the backswing. I suggest videoing your first attempt to do so. You will likely have to make some downswing adjustments in order to hit the ball decently.


Golfie
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top