So we know Tiger has done the whole make over; New caddie, new coach, new swing (?)... So Heres my question to this distinguished assembly: if Tiger had NO scandal, NO injury, and WAS STILL under Hank's tutelage, would he have gone without a major for the last two years? Just looking for some opinions.
Opinion Poll
- Thread starter DCgolf
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That's a great question...I'm thinking that he probably would have snaffled a cheeky one somewhere along the line, just out of sheer bloodymindedness, if nothing else. His aura was systematically dismantled by all his naughties coming to light and you can't put a price on that.
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SteveT
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Tiger set the bar very high, but there were many young guns coming out of the colleges and other tours ready to overtake and leap over him. The pro golfer life cycle is getting shorter and shorter now. Better trained young golfers are emerging and this will continue as science optimizes the sport of golf. Golf was very slow to take advantage of reliable scientific information because it was held back and mired in misleading and archaic swing concepts. Science is a-comin' .....
Steve, I'm inclined to agree for the most part. It is impossible to see now, of course, but it would have been great to see if the young guns state-of-the-art nous could have toppled a more imperious Tiger...
otto6457
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Interesting article on this very subject:
Woods' fading star allows others to shine | Golf Channel
And I think he might have won a major or two if his world hadn't come crashing down. It's easy to forget how huge a mental edge he had on the Tour before his meltdown. He might have won one by just being close like he did many times. He didn't have to play his best golf to intimidate the field.
Woods' fading star allows others to shine | Golf Channel
And I think he might have won a major or two if his world hadn't come crashing down. It's easy to forget how huge a mental edge he had on the Tour before his meltdown. He might have won one by just being close like he did many times. He didn't have to play his best golf to intimidate the field.
according to ESPN, he had won 28.1 percent of events entered going into 2010. so he would have had somewhere around a 93% chance of winning at least one major (of the 8 in 2010-11) if he had continued playing at that clip.
IMO there is no doubt he would have won majors. There is no reason to doubt it. Why on earth would he suddenly become incapable to doing what he had been doing for years?
The young guns have fed off Tiger's weakness and have grown into formidable opponents, no doubt about it. But Tiger was a great golfer. The man was a phenomenon. Now he's neither, and IMO he will never be what he was.
Look at any great sportsman who took a "beating" mentally AND physically: few have ever come back. Ahm tellin ya, that dude done bros, that dude done.
The young guns have fed off Tiger's weakness and have grown into formidable opponents, no doubt about it. But Tiger was a great golfer. The man was a phenomenon. Now he's neither, and IMO he will never be what he was.
Look at any great sportsman who took a "beating" mentally AND physically: few have ever come back. Ahm tellin ya, that dude done bros, that dude done.
There is no question in my mind that Tiger would have won majors if it were not for the scandal. and injury. When I worked as a spotter for ABC TV I was given the Tiger group on several occasions and unless you have experienced it it you won't be able to understand how difficult it is for other players to perform in that weird bubble. It is one of the factors that contributed to Tiger almost never losing when in the lead or close to it on Sunday. The event was all about him and he he really milked it for what it is worth. I saw several players under perform just because what was going on around them. The crowd is totally different and only interested in Tiger. When he was playing in the British Open the year Ben Curtis won in 2003 he was hitting a lot of 3 woods and would play his second shot first, one of the things he would do is go to the other side of the fairway and start walking towards the hole while the other guy was playing the shot. The whole bulging crowd and the heap of photographers inside the ropes would start moving with him. When I saw it for the first time I was disgusted ,there is no way the players could get centred and in their game with all that going on. I watched Donald wilt his whole body language just showed he gave up. On another day Gronberg actually complained about it. He said to one of the officials stop him walking when other players are taking their shots he does it all the time and it should not be allowed. The whole bulging crowd was hustling towards the hole the official with them and he just carried on walking. Gronberg said this is crap played an OK shot and resigned himself to what he was in for. When players makes a bad shot under those circumstances they tend to get inwardly angry because of the unfair circumstances and that just leads to more bad shots. The feeling is almost like hurry up we want to see Tiger's next shot..I talked to the TV guys when I got in and said they should do stats on the other players when playing with Tiger as I was certain the all pretty well shot above their average. The only player I saw who seemed to actually play better playing with Tiger was Garcia.Other players were being mentally suppressed in the Tiger golden years and the scandal has given them a lot of time to find their feet and confidence and beat Tiger and the bogey man factor is now gone. A lot of the young guns would have been suppressed if the tour was set up the way it was around Tiger when he was dominant. With no scandal and injury the Tiger momentum would have continued and if he was in the lead or close to it on Sunday the odds are that he would have won.
We all saw MciIroy blow up leading the Masters under pressure he came back great but with a dominant Tiger around that would have been much more difficult I suspect many of the young guns would have wobbled and not found their feet. Do not underestimate just what an influence and effect the Tiger hysteria had on other players.With all that going on added to Tiger playing great the other players were up against it fighting for second place.
We all saw MciIroy blow up leading the Masters under pressure he came back great but with a dominant Tiger around that would have been much more difficult I suspect many of the young guns would have wobbled and not found their feet. Do not underestimate just what an influence and effect the Tiger hysteria had on other players.With all that going on added to Tiger playing great the other players were up against it fighting for second place.
Lindsey Newman
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I believe he would have won at least 1 maybe 2 majors. The hypothetical that you're posing implies no changes, so with no changes that means he would have at least won at Augusta and St. Andrews.
I think Tiger is a highly intelligent and exceedingly egocentric person. I think his relationships with his instructors may not be what we have heard or imagined based on tidbits from other sources or even from himself. He handles the world like a politician. He calls the shots, imo, and therefore, Haney's influence or lack of influence is difficult to assess. Judging from how Haney has interacted with Buckley and Romano, I feel it takes more than just telling students how to correct a swing to be a truly effective and convincing game changer. Back then, if Haney made a suggestion and Tiger said a flat no, what do you think Haney would have done? Suck it up is my guess.
Having said that, I will put money on the table that Tiger may starting winning next year, assuming there is no more up and coming holiday incidents!
A lot of people can teach one to change a swing. Not many can teach how to sink a winning putt like Tiger used to do...
Having said that, I will put money on the table that Tiger may starting winning next year, assuming there is no more up and coming holiday incidents!
A lot of people can teach one to change a swing. Not many can teach how to sink a winning putt like Tiger used to do...
magicmarker
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If you assume all of that AND if he had kept practicing the way he used to (the way he is having to practice now)....3 more majors to his credit IMO...it isn't over yet though, if Darren Clarke can still run away with one amongst all of the 'young guns' then Tiger has PLENTY of time left to pull IT off.....
birly-shirly
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If Foley has Tiger averaging 11 FWs next year, that might just count as the biggest coaching turnaround in golf history.
I may be proved wrong in this, or the point might remain hypothetical, but I think even Dariusz would be impressed with that.
I may be proved wrong in this, or the point might remain hypothetical, but I think even Dariusz would be impressed with that.
mgranato
New
All the "Rippin-n-Tearin" he got caught doing just shifted the blame off the real cause of his game turning sour. He was already working on a majorless streak before that tree jumped in front of his hoopty. He finished '09 at the PGA with his first glaring case of oxygen starvation. His putting (at the "crucial" moments) had already started to leave him, and his bad shots (at the wrong times) were getting worse. There is always a beginning to an end for every athlete, and periods of dominations are always shorter by comparison. The idea that he could keep up that pre '08 pace is a bigger stretch, IMO.
I'll tell ya this anybody swinging in excess of 120 and hitting 11 FWs is gonna be real tough to beat. I can't prove it but I'm willing to bet there is some correlation n speed and Fairawys hit?
Is there any correlation out there between fairway hits and winning pga tournaments?
Frankly, I am amused by Foley's emphasis on fairway hits, possibly the least important factor to winning as far as Tiger is concerned based on his history and prior stats. I think the emphasis should be on the other side of the hole, the green side, not the tee box side
Remember, the Tiger we used to envy and admire is the guy who got the job done when he had so so fairway hits.
To answer the question yes- Anyone who has won 74 times world wide and 14 majors with 2 coaches can do anything with or without trackman,science,scandals,divorce,65 girlfriends, good or bad caddies. Remember he figured out to win at the professional level 15 yrs ago.You want to talk about the talent code he should be mentioned in all the chapters. Like every great player there always seeking to get better and are never satisfied he could take lessons from Joe Schmo and win.
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