Optimal Weightshift or Conversion Factor between handicaps

[Dariusz J.]

You raise an excellent follow-up topic for further discussion Dariusz.

Once we're done debating this one, can someone please start a thread on optimal weightshift, so that we can threadjack it into a

"What IS the conversion factor to be applied to US handicaps when they travel to Europe?" debate.

LOL. Here we go...

I can say only, that I was always informed (mainly by my golfing buddies who travelled to the States and played golf there) that the difference should be counted to around 3-5 index points on the average. OTOH, I had pleasure to play with a few golfers both from the States as well as from the UK and except one or two cases their HCP index seemed to be a lot too low, much more than these 3-5 points.
IMO, it is because: a. golf courses are much more friendly outside Poland; b. handicap rounds cannot be played on carts here; c. much shorter season here = less opportunity to lower effectively our indexes.

Cheers

 

[66er]

Ive played with a few single digit players from the states, great guys but didnt play to their handicaps at all, maybe their werent use to the weather conditions here in Ireland(Wind and rain). An english club came to our course before all single digits, no-one broke 80 an a relatively easy course. I think countries with alot of links courses have players with much more honest handicaps, tough to hack in the wind. I cant comment on Poland though lol.

 

[willgolfer]

Ive played with a few single digit players from the states, great guys but didnt play to their handicaps at all, maybe their werent use to the weather conditions here in Ireland(Wind and rain). An english club came to our course before all single digits, no-one broke 80 an a relatively easy course. I think countries with alot of links courses have players with much more honest handicaps, tough to hack in the wind. I cant comment on Poland though lol.

What's an "honest" handicap?

 

[66er]

What's an "honest" handicap?

A players true handicap with isnt always their official index, its an expression.

 

[ej20]

Most handicap players will have more chance to play to their handicaps on their home course.That is to be expected.It is very tough to play a course you have never played before and shoot your handicap.Knowledge of greens is huge to scoring.

How about European players going to the US?

 

[mgranato]

For the past 2 seasons I've only posted scores that I've shot in tournaments. I find this to be a much better representation than posting every round every time out. It's added two strokes to my index.

The USGA can go fly a kite.

 

[jbrunk]

Well the handicap formula assumes that one plays to that number 1-5 rounds. So it's likely you will play with many people who would not 'play to their cap'.

 

[willgolfer]

For the past 2 seasons I've only posted scores that I've shot in tournaments. I find this to be a much better representation than posting every round every time out. It's added two strokes to my index.

The USGA can go fly a kite.

So then money games with playing partners at your home course must play in your favor?

 

[mgranato]

So then money games with playing partners at your home course must play in your favor?

I only said my index was up 2 strokes, didn't say to what. I'm not on the receiving end, my conscience is still good.

 

[jmessner]

Well the handicap formula assumes that one plays to that number 1-5 rounds. So it's likely you will play with many people who would not 'play to their cap'.

Good point. Most players AVERAGE score is ~3-6 strokes higher than their handicap would indicate just because of the way it is skewed towards your best rounds. So, if you're a single digit, let's say 5 Hdcp, you're probably averaging somewhere in the low 80's depending on the course.

 

[drewyallop]

LOL. Here we go...

I can say only, that I was always informed (mainly by my golfing buddies who travelled to the States and played golf there) that the difference should be counted to around 3-5 index points on the average. OTOH, I had pleasure to play with a few golfers both from the States as well as from the UK and except one or two cases their HCP index seemed to be a lot too low, much more than these 3-5 points.
IMO, it is because: a. golf courses are much more friendly outside Poland; b. handicap rounds cannot be played on carts here; c. much shorter season here = less opportunity to lower effectively our indexes.


Cheers

Another partial explanation: vanity handicaps - people posting only their "good" rounds. Do not partner with these guys in a money game.

 

[Kevin Shields]

The handicap system sucks but Im not smart enough to know how to fix it. I teach a few tennis players who told me about their system. Like 1s play 1s, 4s play 4s and so on. Is anyone aware of tennis players being real 2s and then crushing the 4s for satisfaction in tournaments??

 

[birly-shirly]

I think part of the problem is golf's proximity, as an athletic endeavour, to playing cards and frequenting betting shops.

I played tennis for a few years and never got the sense that there was much of a gambling scene or financial stakes riding on the outcome of a match - certainly not compared to golf.

 

[Jared Willerson]

To me golf is incomparable in lifestyle, atmosphere and personality than any other sport. People that don't play think you are strange and we as golfers pretty much view people that don't play the same way.

Golf is the perfect sport for recreation or to be taken way too seriously. Any club you go to there is always something going on in the clubhouse too; be it cards, sports watching/betting, good ole fashioned drinking or any combination thereof.

Golf only real downside are handicaps and sandbaggers that make the handicap system basically unusable. I refuse to play any event based on handicaps.

 

[golfdad]

Concur that the handicap system was created for a purpose but we know it does not serve that purpose well.

One survey has revealed that over 90% of fortune 500 executives cheat when playing golf (what they do in their day time job is another story. When you mix honest scoring by some and dishonest scoring by the rest, the system is useless at best. i always wonder how did the 99 year old grandpa/ma manage to shoot 10 shots better than their usual score in the net tournaments?

On the other hand, in the junior ranks, there are 2 systems that are used extensively. One is called Junior Scoreboard and another, Polo ranking. More or less, they take into consideration the course rating, strength of competition, size of field, strength of finish, etc. I think it is a much more accurate measurement of one's level of play.

 

[birly-shirly]

@ Jared. I get what you're saying. But I think that the handicapping system is an essential ingredient in the sport's character - at the amateur, recreational, club membership level.

The fact that it doesn't work perfectly creates problems. The fact that it works at all practically makes the game what it is.

Actually, I think the problems with the handicap system tend to be exaggerated somewhat. It always makes me smile to hear someone complain about the sandbagger who wins by a shot or two.

 

[ZAP]

I thought USGA handicaps were supposed to be more of a reflection of your best golf than your average golf. I would tend to discount someone's round that they played on a vacation a couple of time zones away. The vanity handicap is a real thing but also the sandbagger is too. I have personally witnessed players not turning in a scorecard because they scored too low. Really? And they wonder why I boycott the handicap events.

 

[mgranato]

@ Jared. I get what you're saying. But I think that the handicapping system is an essential ingredient in the sport's character - at the amateur, recreational, club membership level.

The fact that it doesn't work perfectly creates problems. The fact that it works at all practically makes the game what it is.

Actually, I think the problems with the handicap system tend to be exaggerated somewhat. It always makes me smile to hear someone complain about the sandbagger who wins by a shot or two.

It's an essential ingredient for those who have character. The handicap system makes too many assumptions.

Why not count only competitive rounds? Sandbaggers shoot their best scores in competition, and vanity guys shoot their worst in competition. Guys that don't play in competition should have a warning label that reads "PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK".

 

[birly-shirly]

MGranato - that's closer to how things operate here. Competitive rounds - with (I believe) a strictly limited option to submit informal rounds. In theory, I suppose we're swapping data quantity for data quality.

 

[mgranato]

MGranato - that's closer to how things operate here. Competitive rounds - with (I believe) a strictly limited option to submit informal rounds. In theory, I suppose we're swapping data quantity for data quality.

Yep, the R&A has a much better handle on it than the USGA.