Orthodox or Not?

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ekennedy

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B, you are truly a man among men. Now I can see why the Academy guys would go to war for you.

Who dedicates their life to finding every available shred of information in the world about the physics of the golf swing and then dispenses most of it for free? I just hope to run into you at an AMF or PGA Teaching Summit and buy you a beer.

Keep up the good work.
 
lia41985

lia41985

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Alternatively, perhaps the appropriate metric is driving distance. Many, if not most, observers of the modern game say power is primary, accuracy be damned (this approach has even earned the moniker of "bomb and gouge"). Here are the leaders in that statistic on the 2010 PGA Tour (only going to do the top 10 because doing this is exhausting me):
PGATOUR.com - PGA TOUR Statistics
The qualifications for what videos are featured are the same as with total driving (see my earlier post in the thread):
Robert Garrigus: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jLLIplqXHg[/media]
Bubba Watson: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u74PdmQHouA[/media]
Dustin Johnson: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEN5ALpi2L4[/media]
J.B. Holmes: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7BnM0BCKa4[/media]
John Daly: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0kOjCfhf4o[/media]
Angel Cabrera: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcIGV44-NJ0[/media]
D.J. Trahan: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT5EvKxZ1X8[/media]
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All of these golfers exhibit the components Brian discussed. So if driving distance is the metric, we definitely have components at work that are enviable.
 
Jwat

Jwat

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Brian Manzella said:
Can we say that these swings are EXCELLENT SWINGS with DESIRABLE elements for driver swings?
Click to expand...

I do think all these swings are excellent and desirable for anyone swinging the driver.

Brian, I did notice that every golfer really used the ground to spring up right before impact. Does this help keep their upper torso behind the ball at impact?
 
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SteveT

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Jwat said:
I did notice that every golfer really used the ground to spring up right before impact. Does this help keep their upper torso behind the ball at impact?
Click to expand...

That adds parametric acceleration to the centripetal acceleration, and it also realigns the spine through final Release and Impact, otherwise the rotatory stresses couldn't be mitigated.
 
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chipingguru

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I was watching the longdrive championship the other day and it seemed like they all had their feet off the ground, or very little of their feet on the ground, at impact.

Surprised me I always thought feet on the ground generated more power.

Im missing the "spring move" with these guys, they all look rock solid and grounded, if anything closer to the ground at impact than before.
 
Jwat

Jwat

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chipingguru said:
I was watching the longdrive championship the other day and it seemed like they all had their feet off the ground, or very little of their feet on the ground, at impact.

Surprised me I always thought feet on the ground generated more power.

Im missing the "spring move" with these guys, they all look rock solid and grounded, if anything closer to the ground at impact than before.
Click to expand...

They are all rock solid and grounded. But that does mean they aren't springing from the ground up through their pelvis. Watch the Nicklaus videos, and you will see what I mean.

Yes some body parts are closer to the ground and some are farther away. That is why I am asking if this move creates the ability for the upper torso to stay behind the ball which is something I do the exact opposite of.
 
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SteveT

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^^^chipingguru .... but where is their weight and thrust distribution when their feet are on the ground???

Do they stay in contact with the ground going into final Release and then thrust upwards .. and then after Impact they settle back into the ground???

The only way to determine what is actually happening is to measure the forces underfoot ... otherwise it's plain conjecture on your and my part.
 
lia41985

lia41985

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Jwat said:
I did notice that every golfer really used the ground to spring up right before impact. Does this help keep their upper torso behind the ball at impact?
Click to expand...
This is from Golf Anatomy by Craig Davies:
The transition from the upswing to the downswing requires great coordination by the athlete and an ability to separate the lower body and pelvis from the upper body. The transition between these two phases of the swing is initiated by the golfer moving the lower body into position to allow for the greatest muscular efficiency. One of the primary objectives is to position the target-side knee over the outside aspect of the target foot. This puts the golfer in proper alignment for the quadriceps muscles to contract and straighten the knee, the gluteus maximus muscle to contract to create hip extension, and the muscles of the hip rotator cuff (piriformis, gluteus medius and minimus, and obturators) to contract to create both lateral stability within the hip and internal rotation of the hip joint, all of the target-side leg. The trail-side leg uses the quadriceps, adductor magnus, hamstrings, gluteus maximus, and gastocnemius muscles to create knee extension, hip extension, and ankle plantar flexion to help drive the golfer's weight onto the left side. The activation of the muscles in the legs helps drive the golfer into the ground and position the player so that the arms are able to move into position and create the desired angle of attack.

In the core, the obliques and psoas major are highly activated, creating a crunch-like position as the golfer's hips extend and his pelvis tilts in a relatively posterior fashion (the belt buckle starts to point up) which his chest remains over the ball. The target-side latissimus dorsi helps pull the golfer onto his target side while countering the force generated by the pectoralis muscles on both sides of the golfer's body.
Click to expand...
The emphasis was added by me. Davies's book is great--I think it's a must read for those looking for a deeper biomechanical understanding of the golf swing and for specific exercises to improve the biomechanical efficiency of their swings.
 
F

footwedge

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lia41985 said:
This is from Golf Anatomy by Craig Davies:

The emphasis was added by me. Davies's book is great--I think it's a must read for those looking for a deeper biomechanical understanding of the golf swing and for specific exercises to improve the biomechanical efficiency of their swings.
Click to expand...



The transition from the upswing to the downswing requires great coordination by the athlete and an ability to separate the lower body and pelvis from the upper body. The transition between these two phases of the swing is initiated by the golfer moving the lower body into position to allow for the greatest muscular efficiency. One of the primary objectives is to position the target-side knee over the outside aspect of the target foot. This puts the golfer in proper alignment for the quadriceps muscles to contract and straighten the knee, the gluteus maximus muscle to contract to create hip extension, and the muscles of the hip rotator cuff (piriformis, gluteus medius and minimus, and obturators) to contract to create both lateral stability within the hip and internal rotation of the hip joint, all of the target-side leg. The trail-side leg uses the quadriceps, adductor magnus, hamstrings, gluteus maximus, and gastocnemius muscles to create knee extension, hip extension, and ankle plantar flexion to help drive the golfer's weight onto the left side. The activation of the muscles in the legs helps drive the golfer into the ground and position the player so that the arms are able to move into position and create the desired angle of attack.

In the core, the obliques and psoas major are highly activated, creating a crunch-like position as the golfer's hips extend and his pelvis tilts in a relatively posterior fashion (the belt buckle starts to point up) which his chest remains over the ball. The target-side latissimus dorsi helps pull the golfer onto his target side while countering the force generated by the pectoralis muscles on both sides of the golfer's body.


Can you do any of this consciously? What's the cause?
 
D

DCgolf

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These swings were certainly not less than ideal for them. My God you've got most of the hall of fame up there. And yes a viable option for the right player. I'm an old timer and used to watch Miller hit balls and was AMAZED how close he stood to the golf ball. I mean scary close and he would hit a lateral from time to time; they all just figured it out I guess. GREAT photos and great point.
 
lia41985

lia41985

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footwedge said:
Can you do any of this consciously? What's the cause?
Click to expand...
I'm sure doing the exercises prescribed can help in the execution of this sequence of motions, but again, as we discussed earlier on another thread (you may not have seen it) with regard to Gladwell's book, Blink, that well-executed athletic motions seem to require as little conscious thought as possible. SteveT seems to know some about this topic as well. In terms of the cause of these motions, I would say that a well executed downswing and followthrough is a consequence of a well executed backswing and transition that display proper kinematic sequencing. Admittedly, this is both a technical and vague response. I'm sure there are many drills, feels (throw the drunk off the back, right shoulder down and left shoulder up, one-to-one relationship between shoulder rotation and shoulder tilt, sit and tilt, snapping the kinetic chain, braking the pivot), etc. that aid the student in learning this motion, but that is not my area of expertise. So I'm going to shut up and defer to Brian and his team on this :p
 
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chipingguru

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I knew it was the dang gastocnemius muscles.

I wonder if this group of some of the best players who ever walked the planet really provide much insight into methodologies in helping joe six pack break 85 at his local course?

Kinda like trying to duplicate Hogan or Garcias lag isn't it? Gorgeous to see but who can learn it?
 
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SteveT

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I SEE, THEREFORE I CAN !!!"

Love those vids ... keep 'em coming ...!!!!
 
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