PingMan's Perfect Release?

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

JeffM

New member
As hcw suggests - we do not really know if the release point is the same for different arm speeds, but I wouldn't be surprised if it occurs at the same downswing point for different arm speeds. My reasoning is that a certain porportion of the linear action force (from the arm swing) results in angular velocity and rotation of the clubshaft anti-clockwise. That proportion could remain the same for different arm speeds and this will produce a faster angular velocity for faster arm speeds - so the release will occur at approximately the same point in the downswing, and the degree of lag at impact will also be approximately the same.

Jeff.
 
H

hcw

New
JeffMann said:
As hcw suggests - we do not really know if the release point is the same for different arm speeds, but I wouldn't be surprised if it occurs at the same downswing point for different arm speeds. My reasoning is that a certain porportion of the linear action force (from the arm swing) results in angular velocity and rotation of the clubshaft anti-clockwise. That proportion could remain the same for different arm speeds and this will produce a faster angular velocity for faster arm speeds - so the release will occur at approximately the same point in the downswing, and the degree of lag at impact will also be approximately the same.

Jeff.
Click to expand...

jeff,
i think perhaps not, and here's why...if you take a club, set up and go the the top/end of your backswing and then make your pivot move down in as "slow motion" as possible you can hold off release for a very long time, in fact you can get even get the clubhead back to the "ball", just quite a bit above it!...now if repeat the exercise over and over, pivoting a little faster each time you will see that it gets harder and harder (indeed at some point impossible) to hold off release and then the clubhead will drop to the ground (actually it will get a little closer and closer as you speed up the pivot)...at some point one's muscles (well at least my muscles:) just cannot hold back the inertia/momentum/force of the clubhead, but that point depends on how much inertia/momentum/force the speed of your pivot has imparted to the clubhead...i think the pingmans two "joints" may work in a similar manner, ie they have a given amount of frictional "strength" that is overcome at some point and the clubhead releases, but i think that may be different depending on it's pivot's speed, but unfortunately i have no data (ie video) to know that...cheer's!

-hcw

ps- as a side note, i think if one has very "educated hands" you can, as Brian has stated, add to this natural release via activating the appropriate muscles, but that takes coordination!
 
Last edited:
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
The point!

The POINT to my posting of Ping Man 5's "swing," was to show that if you SWING, this is what your release looks like.

Any more "trigger delay" or "up the left arm" past impact, is all GOLFER ADDED.

Not wrong, per se, just not "PURE SWINGING."

:)
 
Bronco Billy

Bronco Billy

New member
hcw said:
jeff,
i think the pingmans two "joints" may work in a similar manner, ie they have a given amount of frictional "strength" that is overcome at some point and the clubhead releases, but i think that may be different depending on it's pivot's speed, but unfortunately i have no data (ie video) to know that...cheer's!
Click to expand...

Hi There

As Far as I Know PingMan has only one Free Hinge Joint(Arm to Club) and This Joint is Essentially "FrictionLess"....... I Believe this Joint Also Swivels??? Anyone Know whether the Free Hinge Joint Also Swivels or Not??? You Say two Joints what is the Other One????

Cheers
 
H

hcw

New
Bronco Billy said:
Hi There

As Far as I Know PingMan has only one Free Hinge Joint(Arm to Club) and This Joint is Essentially "FrictionLess"....... I Believe this Joint Also Swivels??? Anyone Know whether the Free Hinge Joint Also Swivels or Not??? You Say two Joints what is the Other One????

Cheers
Click to expand...

hi bill,
i only know what i see on the video...from what i can see there seems to be a connection of the "arms" to the "hands" which "hinges"and the connection of the "hands" to the club which seems to be able to allow the club to "swivel" (ie rotate around the axis of the shaft)...i don't have any info as to whether they made them as "FrictionLess" as possible or gave them some restraint...it's hard to tell from the video's angle, but it may be that the "arm/hands" hinge "sweep" releases essentially from the top, but it looks to me like the "hands/club" swivel doesn't release until around clubshaft parallel to the ground...anyhoo, i am actually really more interested in the human experiment regardless, so maybe my comments are sorta "thread-jacking", eh?...my apologies...

-hcw
 
Bronco Billy

Bronco Billy

New member
Hi There

Does Any Have a Mathematical Answer to this Question? If Not Does Any Have a Link that Might Shed Some Light on this Issue?

Thanks
 
D

dbl

New
Bronco Billy said:
Hi There

Why Does PingMan Always Release the Same No Matter What the Arm Velocity?

Cheers
Click to expand...

Did you ever watch the trebuchet at Tutleman's site?* An important feature of that device is that the force applied stops somewhere near when the "left arm" would be near the ball area. We can't be sure about Pingman's design in regards this without further informaiton. But I would think a high force applied until the deadstop on the far side of the ball would prohibit a release.

*http://www.tutelman.com/golfclubs/DesignNotes/swing1.php
(almost at bottom of page)
 
H

hcw

New
hmmmmmm

dbl said:
Did you ever watch the trebuchet at Tutleman's site?* An important feature of that device is that the force applied stops somewhere near when the "left arm" would be near the ball area. We can't be sure about Pingman's design in regards this without further informaiton. But I would think a high force applied until the deadstop on the far side of the ball would prohibit a release.

*http://www.tutelman.com/golfclubs/DesignNotes/swing1.php
(almost at bottom of page)
Click to expand...

...i can't tell what the weight does from that video...but this cool looking sucker would appear to be able to keep the "force" moving past release:

http://www.redstoneprojects.com/trebuchetstore/golf_ball_trebuchet_plan.html

...ok did a google search and found these:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5211209985372994776

http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/02/car_trebuchet_v.html


...these don't stop the "force" moving, but it looks like it depends on the trebuchet design...so now the question is which one is more efficient/better?:)

-hcw
 
D

dbl

New
hcw said:
...i can't tell what the weight does from that video...but this cool looking sucker would appear to be able to keep the "force" moving past release:
Click to expand...

In the trbuchet video at Tutelman's site, the falling weight just hits the ground - so no more force. This happens about when the arm is in the "ball" area, and the "club" and load are slung past.

In the animations he has near that video, the falling weight goes into an undercarriage in the mechanism, at which point the the PE has been expended.
 
Last edited:
D

dbl

New
Maybe I misread your OP. How do you know it releases "the same" for different speeds. Did I miss some post about it?
 
Bronco Billy

Bronco Billy

New member
dbl said:
Maybe I misread your OP. How do you know it releases "the same" for different speeds. Did I miss some post about it?
Click to expand...

Hi There

I Observed It.... How Do you know it Doesn't???? If you think it Doesn't then Prove that it Doesn't Mathematically....

Cheers
 
H

holeout

New
Here's a thought: would the Ping Man stress the shaft more if it began the downswing earlier than it does in the video? I noticed that the machine waits until the shaft has almost completely set itself to parallel at the top before it swings down. What if it didn't wait for the shaft to get to parallel before it began the downswing? I guess this would be float-loading, right?
 
Bronco Billy

Bronco Billy

New member
holeout said:
Here's a thought: would the Ping Man stress the shaft more if it began the downswing earlier than it does in the video? I noticed that the machine waits until the shaft has almost completely set itself to parallel at the top before it swings down. What if it didn't wait for the shaft to get to parallel before it began the downswing? I guess this would be float-loading, right?
Click to expand...

Hi There

I don't believe that Parameter is adjustable..... Also what the Hell Does that have to do with Answering the Question one way or the Other????

Cheers
 
H

holeout

New
Bronco Billy said:
Hi There

I don't believe that Parameter is adjustable..... Also what the Hell Does that have to do with Answering the Question one way or the Other????

Cheers
Click to expand...

Just a random thought. Perhaps more suitable for a new thread.

However, now that I think of it, would the release change if this parameter was adjustable? And would it vary with different arm speeds? I'm intrigued by the possibilities.

Sorry if it's too far off-topic.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top