Pivot like a madman

[Erik_K]

Just listened to GMac talking about how he hits it with his body rotation. If he wants to hit it further he speeds up his body rotation. I'd love to get to the bottom of this pivot mystery, but if I did, I'd be the first. I think EVERYONE is confused on this issue. So, BMan and Co, there's the holy grail, no?

From what I understand the sensation of turning hard (or swing hard through the ball) can only happen once the majority of the weight is on the left side - specifically the left hip has just nudged over the left ankle and the left foot has started to roll toward the target. From here the clubhead is already well on it's way down to the ball and hands are probably over the right thigh.

Naturally you can run into lots of problems when you are too quick from the top. Since the weight hasn't been shifted the shoulders and torso sort of spin together, but the hips back up (we used to call this the 'sit and spin' pivot). I think when the great players are describing what the 'late hit' feels like is the sensation that they have gradually settled into the left side and the power is poured on rather late into the downswing.

There was tournament not long ago where Tiger was teeing off and above him a bird flew over and it's shadow went right across the ball. Tiger's hands were nearly waist high and he was still able to stop swinging and then re-start his routine. I found that to be rather amazing because if I, and probably most other chompers, attempted this we'd have no way of slowing down. Clearly Tiger was going to apply maximum effort much, much later compared to a much poorer player, such as myself.

Erik

 

[johnnymarlboro]

 

[wulsy]

Instead of trying to decel, try to accelerate the appropriate segment at the appropriate time, which will cause the preceding segment to decel (and sometimes even reverse in direction).

Good point and all good and well bud, but what you gonna accelerate after the shoulders and before impact. (Better be a quick thinker cos you've got about 0.1 of a second to do it.)

 

[Ringer]

I don't know about you, but I don't want conscious deceleration of any part in my kinetic sequence.

I also don't want to think about trying to re-accelerating any part of my kinetic sequence that should have already fired.

 

[wulsy]

Fair points Ringer. But it begs the question - WTF is the point in the knowledge about the decels in the KS if you don't do them???

 

[Erik_K]

Fair points Ringer. But it begs the question - WTF is the point in the knowledge about the decels in the KS if you don't do them???

Well there's theory...and then there's practice.

The golf downswing lasts what? Maybe a 0.5-1 second? Good luck trying to initiate/manage/accel/decel during that time span.

 

[wulsy]

Fair comment, but it that's a valid argument "good luck doing anything at all" in the golf swing.

 

[mgranato]

Fair points Ringer. But it begs the question - WTF is the point in the knowledge about the decels in the KS if you don't do them???

Of course you do them, and can learn to do them if you don't. HOW you do them is the important bit. Question #1... can you have all segments (pelvis, thorax, arm, and club) accelerating at/through impact? Question #2... should you?

Well there's theory...and then there's practice.

The golf downswing lasts what? Maybe a 0.5-1 second? Good luck trying to initiate/manage/accel/decel during that time span.

It's more like .25 second. Which is why initiating/managing your sequence and speeds from the takeaway and through the transistion is extremely important.

 

[magicmarker]

When golfers tear the cover off that mofo, to my un-trained eye it seems like in swings with better balance (imo) the pivot is more a reaction to the forces the club puts on the golfer. In swings that appear less balanced throughout it seems as though the club is reacting to the pivot more.

To me the latter feels like I put more effort into the swing but with diminishing returns in distance and much greater dispersion. The former feels like I can add more power later on into the downswing, and the overall swing feels more effortless.

I think the answer to your question depends on where you naturally fall on to the spectrum. The correct answer could be either one, depending on what moves you closer to an optimal or neutral setting.

If you are flexible enough to pivot like a madman your lower body will outrun the upper and the idea won't do much for you.
If you're less flexible and you couldn't have your lower body outrun the upper no matter how hard you tried it could work for you.

JMO

 

[ej20]

From what I understand the sensation of turning hard (or swing hard through the ball) can only happen once the majority of the weight is on the left side - specifically the left hip has just nudged over the left ankle and the left foot has started to roll toward the target. From here the clubhead is already well on it's way down to the ball and hands are probably over the right thigh.

Naturally you can run into lots of problems when you are 'too' quick from the top. Since the weight hasn't been shifted the shoulders and torso sort of spin together, but the hips back up (we used to call this the 'sit and spin' pivot). I think when the great players are describing what the 'late hit' feels like is the sensation that they have gradually settled into the left side and the power is poured on rather late into the downswing.

There was tournament not long ago where Tiger was teeing off and above him a bird flew over and it's shadow went right across the ball. Tiger's hands were nearly waist high and he was still able to stop swinging and then re-start his routine. I found that to be rather amazing because if I, and probably most other chompers, attempted this we'd have no way of slowing down. Clearly Tiger was going to apply maximum effort much, much later compared to a much poorer player, such as myself.

Erik

Some good points here.I don't disagree with what the science says about the kinetic chain but I want to feel like the main boosters only starts firing in the follow through.Being able to stop your swing late in the downswing may be a good test to determine if you are igniting the booster rockets too early.

 

[wulsy]

ej, are you saying that you feel like you fire the shoulders through impact and not well in advance of impact like the science says?

 

[ej20]

ej, are you saying that you feel like you fire the shoulders through impact and not well in advance of impact like the science says?

Yes for me feel is not the same as real.I can't speak for everyone though.Some may indeed benefit from firing early and then putting the brakes on.

 

[Lindsey Newman]

I think we all need to remember that even though decelerations are happening, it does mean that a player is trying to do make it happen. I think in general terms that the players is using everything he has to hit it from toes to fingertips. Then the range of motion shuts down each segment sequentially as the next one fires.

Honestly I cannot imagine trying to decel something. I can only imagine having the next segment over take the last.

I know this has been discussed, but I think we often forget what is really being said.

 

[spktho]

Honestly I cannot imagine trying to decel something. I can only imagine having the next segment over take the last.

X2

 

[wulsy]

...I think in general terms that the players is using everything he has to hit it from toes to fingertips. Then the range of motion shuts down each segment sequentially as the next one fires.

Honestly I cannot imagine trying to decel something. I can only imagine having the next segment over take the last.

I know this has been discussed, but I think we often forget what is really being said.

Yes Lindsey, but don't you think that what you're saying here is "pivot like a madman, release like a madman and hope that the sequencing is ok"?

 

[spktho]

hope that the sequencing is ok"?

I think you can pivot "like a madman" and do it sequencially. Just knowing what the sequencing should be is more than half the battle, imo.

 

[wulsy]

To be honest, I've got something important out of this thread already, and I appreciate the input. To me, it seems that the decel has to be seen as a TOTAL CONSEQUENCE and not as something you implement. Keep it comin!

 

[mgranato]

To be honest, I've got something important out of this thread already, and I appreciate the input. To me, it seems that the decel has to be seen as a TOTAL CONSEQUENCE and not as something you implement. Keep it comin!

By George....

 

[dschultz6072]

I've stopped my downswing before. It still hurts.