Please help with my impact position.

[chrisutpg]

Well here it goes;
I have never hit the ball extremely long, however I am a good player. I am currently playing to about a 3. But this year I am determined to actually work on my swing and hit the ball better and more correctly.

Of course this means getting my hands into a better position at impact and not flipping. I have seen confessions of a former flipper, however I am still lost.

My practice swing is exactly what I want. But when I hit a ball, its completely different. Here are some things I need help with; (video posted below)

1: In my practice swing, I am sure the face is wide open. I have tried to toe the club in about 15 degrees and hit golf balls, to force myself to hold more lag. I took some video, it was better but not great. Most of the balls were hooked off the planet. But why can't I make the practice swing with a ball there and just hit it straight right? At least I know I would keep some of my lag.

2: In both swings I dip my head down on the backswing. However in the practice swing I stay low through the swing, on the real swing I raise up. Again why is this? Am I standing up because I flipping and I know the club is getting longer and don't want to hit behind it? Or do I flip because I stand up and I need the club to get longer so I don't miss the ball?

3: In my practice swing, I have a lot more secondary axis tilt. Not in my real one tho? Is this due to the raising up?

Here is a video of them side by side; YouTube - Loss of lag, but why?

I am really trying to fix this, so any help is great. Thanks.

 

[Steve Greffen]

Just a guess but with your practice swing, if you could hit a ball in this position I believe that the ball would go very right on you. Again that is an assumption but it looks like that in the slow motion near where impact would be on your practice swing. Your fix will have to be to be a way to get to that position AND be able to square the clubface better into that lagged position.

 

[chrisutpg]

Just a guess but with your practice swing, if you could hit a ball in this position I believe that the ball would go very right on you. Again that is an assumption but it looks like that in the slow motion near where impact would be on your practice swing. Your fix will have to be to be a way to get to that position AND be able to square the clubface better into that lagged position.

I agree with you. Completely. I know I flip at it to hit it straight, but are you saying that if I can get the clubface square in the practice swing, that I will than keep more lag in it when I hit a ball?

 

[dbl]

Noticed in the swing with a ball, and in another youtube video you have, your right arm is in a punch position. I bet you could have tons more lag a with a pitch elbow. ie, point right elbow towards body and target. Still would have to square the clubface up, but would you give you totally different dynamics. The practice swing on left has more of a pitch elbow....

 

[chrisutpg]

Noticed in the swing with a ball, and in another youtube video you have, your right arm is in a punch position. I bet you could have tons more lag a with a pitch elbow. ie, point right elbow towards body and target. Still would have to square the clubface up, but would you give you totally different dynamics. The practice swing on left has more of a pitch elbow....

Thank you for the reply. Now I could be totally wrong, but shouldn't my right elbow, automatically tuck into that 'pitch' position like it does on the practice? In other words, if I make a sound golf swing, won't the elbow work in a better way? Like I said I could be completely wrong, I always just thought the arms are suppose to be passive?

 

[Matt 4-L]

You have a pivot stall.

 

[dbl]

shouldn't my right elbow, automatically tuck into that 'pitch' position like it does on the practice? In other words, if I make a sound golf swing, won't the elbow work in a better way? Like I said I could be completely wrong, I always just thought the arms are suppose to be passive?

To me, and maybe many others, nothing in the golfswing is all that natural. Didn't Hogan say it was all unnatural? And if something useful needs to get done, you just may need to practice and train to get to those hard to get to spots. Now there may be someone else who might say the punch elbow position is a ~result~ of some other malady, and I wouldn't discount that at all.

 

[spktho]

Just a guess but with your practice swing, if you could hit a ball in this position I believe that the ball would go very right on you. Again that is an assumption but it looks like that in the slow motion near where impact would be on your practice swing. Your fix will have to be to be a way to get to that position AND be able to square the clubface better into that lagged position.

I agree, need to fix the club face, it is too open on the downswing which causes the punch elbow and flip. Search twistaway.

 

[chrisutpg]

I agree, need to fix the club face, it is too open on the downswing which causes the punch elbow and flip. Search twistaway.

Alright, its funny you say that. I actually gave this a bit of the go on the course yesterday and hit a 8i 165ish. That is really long for me, even if it was a tad down wind.

Here is another thought tho, should I continue to hit shots with the toe of the club in for practice? i.e to train my hands to not flip so much? In other words, I have trained myself to flip at the ball to square the face, so shouldn't I retrain myself to not flip? Even if that means going back to hitting a big slice for a while?

 

[counterfall]

Alright, its funny you say that. I actually gave this a bit of the go on the course yesterday and hit a 8i 165ish. That is really long for me, even if it was a tad down wind.

Here is another thought tho, should I continue to hit shots with the toe of the club in for practice? i.e to train my hands to not flip so much? In other words, I have trained myself to flip at the ball to square the face, so shouldn't I retrain myself to not flip? Even if that means going back to hitting a big slice for a while?

That's a good question. If you start with short shots that focus on the impact zone like in "Confessions" while still trying to play, there is no telling what it might do to your full swing at first. But if the whole root issue is a squaring of the club face and you swing more efficiently while using the twistaway, then it would seem that NSA would be the place to start. The other question is are you able to allow yourself to play with the twistaway even if it means higher scores until you adapt to it? If you go all in on fixing it, you probably won't have to wait too long before you become efficient with it judging by your current handicap.

 

[chrisutpg]

That's a good question. If you start with short shots that focus on the impact zone like in "Confessions" while still trying to play, there is no telling what it might do to your full swing at first. But if the whole root issue is a squaring of the club face and you swing more efficiently while using the twistaway, then it would seem that NSA would be the place to start. The other question is are you able to allow yourself to play with the twistaway even if it means higher scores until you adapt to it? If you go all in on fixing it, you probably won't have to wait too long before you become efficient with it judging by your current handicap.

I am prepared to watch the scores sky rocket if I play while working on it. On the other hand, I am pretty sure I will really limit my play until I feel real good about it. I am fully committed to fixing this once and for all.

 

[Matt Bryda]

chrisutpg,

Go to Johnny Unitas top of the backswing right arm, from there do the hurdle the ball drill with the left thumb under finish, for practice swings. Then try the ball after the ball drill.
The ball should go left
Your hips need to keep going towards the target and opening up also
The left thumb under finish encourages this hip motion

Matt

 

[chrisutpg]

Alright, so I have been working on the twistaway and also tyring to stay the same height on the backswing. I have no doubt made progess, but I am still not there yet. Please take a look at the new video and continue to give me things to work on! My shoulders are still spinning open from the top, and I have no idea why. Sideyard, I couldn't find any of the drills you were talking about it? Are they on youtube or this forum? Here is the video;

Left side is yesterday with the tour striker, and right side is over a week ago with a wedge;

YouTube - Update..with SOME progress.

Please, any help is great! Thanks!

 

[Matt 4-L]

Your problem is all in your pivot, you have no hip rotation on the downswing that's why your flipping at it. Take a down the line video and we can see exactly what your pivot is doing.

 

[jerry1967]

You have a pivot stall.

Could you please explain what this is and what it doesn in the swing?

 

[Matt 4-L]

In layman terms you need your pivot to transport your club to a certain position before you can snap the kinetic chain, if you fail to get your body into that position before impact it is deemed a pivot stall. Not to be confused with pivot breaking which is the slowing of the hips so the arms and shoulders can speed up. (Brian had a video somewhere that talks about the differences) What it looks like to me from the face on view of the op is a good backswing and starts his downswing ok but just slides his hips instead of rotating them and therefore has to flip at it to close the face.

 

[leon]

Your problem is all in your pivot, you have no hip rotation on the downswing that's why your flipping at it.

I'm interested to know why hip slide opens the face, or alternatively how does correct hip rotation help square it up?

 

[spktho]

You have made some good progress. I would now suggest working on staying more behind the ball with your upper body/pivot by starting the downswing with your lower body. If you watch the transition, your arms and hands move before the lower body moves. It should be the opposite.

 

[mew09]

My 2 cents:

Reviewing your initial video: The backswing of the practice swing (without the flip) is a bit shorter. Notice the top of backswing position in both and note the distance between your hands and head. That gap/distance is greater in the practice swing. I believe this may be due to allowing the right elbow to slide backward and become trapped behind you. Another result is that this produces an arm swing that is more across your chest and the swing at the ball becomes a bit flatter. These are both a consequence of letting your right arm to drift behind you.

I would expect a down the line view would show that the right forearm is leaning forward at the top of the backswing. This creates a tendency to come over the top. Moreover, the right elbow never gets infront of the right hip. The net result is the flip Notice at 990 the socket of the right elbow is pointing toward the camera in the practice swing, but pointing at the left arm in the ball swing.

Maybe a pivot stall is involved, but that may be a result of the right arm being too far behind you.

IMHO

 

[spktho]

My 2 cents:

Reviewing your initial video: The backswing of the practice swing (without the flip) is a bit shorter. Notice the top of backswing position in both and note the distance between your hands and head. That gap/distance is greater in the practice swing. I believe this may be due to allowing the right elbow to slide backward and become trapped behind you. Another result is that this produces an arm swing that is more across your chest and the swing at the ball becomes a bit flatter. These are both a consequence of letting your right arm to drift behind you.

I would expect a down the line view would show that the right forearm is leaning forward at the top of the backswing. This creates a tendency to come over the top. Moreover, the right elbow never gets infront of the right hip. The net result is the flip Notice at 990 the socket of the right elbow is pointing toward the camera in the practice swing, but pointing at the left arm in the ball swing.

Maybe a pivot stall is involved, but that may be a result of the right arm being too far behind you.

IMHO

The practice swing looks good because there is not a ball to hit a mile right. Get a ball down and look how the swing changes. Most of his problems are from an open club face.