Please help with my impact position.

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Sideyard, I couldn't find any of the drills you were talking about it? Are they on youtube or this forum?

The Johnny Unitas phrase is Brian's terminology that designates a top of the backswing right arm location.

From this location it will be much easier to carry and drop the club on the ball.

More left and open hips and more forward arms/hands/club.

The drills I mentioned are from Brian and are mentioned in the forum.

Matt
 
The practice swing looks good because there is not a ball to hit a mile right. Get a ball down and look how the swing changes. Most of his problems are from an open club face.

Honestly, you have all been so much of a help. I cannot thank everyone enough. I do believe that I am sliding more than turning with the hips, I also know that the club face was WIDE open on the practice swing, and like I said I've been working hard with the twistaway to square it up more. Two years ago I had a huge cupped wrist at the top, and now it much more inline with the forearm.

I have some DL videos that I will post in a few minutes. I also have a video from yesterday hitting knockdown shots with a 3i with a SLIGHTLY closed face at address, and I maintain a lot more lag. Can't exactly tell why tho. However I am glad I am making some progess. I expect it will take at least most of the golf season to fix it completely.

I'll post that video in a bit. Again, this has all been so helpful. Please keep it coming!
 

dbl

New
10 tons of throwaway. Where is that left thumb pointing? Down.

Others may say a bad pivot is causing this, but I think it's a combo of things.

screenshot011dfx.jpg


As a minimum look up and practice the pump drill (common on the web). jmo.
 
Chris,
The right arm seems a bit deep or behind you for how low your left arm is. You risk being too laid off with a lot of "tumble" and twistaway needed to square the clubface up. You seem to have 'lazy' hips as others have mentioned a hip stall. This puts your shoulders in a position to outrace your hip turn. I used to have the same issue to some extent. I had to really focus on hip action and weight transfer on the downswing letting the arms become a secondary thought. Through face-on mirror work, I acquired a good feel for a much better transition where I really loaded DOWN into the left side BEFORE any real rotation started. I got the feeling that the external rotation of the left knee, aided by loading down into the left leg, was starting my rotation to the left. The shoulders and arms where being PULLED by the pivot instead of actively spun by a hit impulse. The key for me was loading DOWN and LEFT before rotating (rotating the hips before getting left enough may be a reason why the hip stall is employed). Even without a ball in front of me I reactively performed the "JUMP" (straightening of the left leg) to shallow out the swing so that the club didn't smash into my floor. If you bring a mirror out with you while you are hitting, it may help a lot with getting your practice swings to be exactly what you want them to be. Without a mirror, I perform short pitch shots (hands waist high in the backswing) with a mini RUNUP and JUMP. The jump feels like it pulls the arms through impact.


'lia' has mentioned the RUN UP and even the JUMP before in this thread. The original thread has helped me better understand what I had started to do on my own through watching Dustin Johnson's transition/pivot action in slow motion. If you haven't read the thread started by Brian, check it out:

http://www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/12194-pull-back-run-up-jump.html
 
I have some DL videos that I will post in a few minutes. I also have a video from yesterday hitting knockdown shots with a 3i with a SLIGHTLY closed face at address, and I maintain a lot more lag. Can't exactly tell why tho.

Might be because you have the ball so far back on the mat. It has the same effect that Brian's drills do in COFF where something is placed behind the ball.
 
Reaffirming my previous comment. The right arm is out of position. I recall a comment that Brian made in the past. ~The right elbow should be higher than left on takeaway, and the right elbow should be below the left on the downswing.

Look at 0:12.057 on your wedge with the ball. The right elbow is above the left and out of position. By the time the left arm is horizontal in the downswing the majority have the right arm such that the elbow is lower then the left.

Try not letting the right elbow drift behind your left axillary line.
 
I have tried the pump and go and drill, and honestly I used to do it a lot. However, it just does not seem to do much for whatever reason? Also, dtl; What do you believe is causing the throw away? I am in agreement that I am throwing it away, but I can't seem to figure out why.

counterfall;
I will look up that topic and give it a read. I know that partly the reason I throw away some of the lag must be in my hips/transition. However, are you saying I only need to work on a better transition or a better position at the top of the swing also? I know it is a bit laid off. I just watched Brians video about 'tumble' interesting stuff.

spmurph; Honestly, I only put it on the back of the mat, so I could get a better camera angle on it. Did not even cross my mind otherwise. But do you really think that could be the reason?
 
Reaffirming my previous comment. The right arm is out of position. I recall a comment that Brian made in the past. ~The right elbow should be higher than left on takeaway, and the right elbow should be below the left on the downswing.

Look at 0:12.057 on your wedge with the ball. The right elbow is above the left and out of position. By the time the left arm is horizontal in the downswing the majority have the right arm such that the elbow is lower then the left.

Try not letting the right elbow drift behind your left axillary line.


Any tips to avoid letting that arm drift behind so much on the downswing? I agree, that the elbow needs to be tucked more.
 
Sure, why not? Who the hell wants to hit the pavement with a 3i? You should take a coke machine to the range with you next time :)
 
counterfall;
I will look up that topic and give it a read. I know that partly the reason I throw away some of the lag must be in my hips/transition. However, are you saying I only need to work on a better transition or a better position at the top of the swing also? I know it is a bit laid off. I just watched Brians video about 'tumble' interesting stuff.

In my opinion, you may find that more height (hands higher) at the top of your backswing may help you (Johnny Unitas position with the elbow out behind you ala Fred Couples). Along with this, it seems that you may be substituting pulling your arms across your chest for a proper shoulder turn. Having my left arm that far across my chest seems like it CAUSES me to throw my shoulders out as a reaction. I would think you need an aggressive pivot for that to work.
Or, if you want to keep the hands closer to where they are now, you may be in a better position coming down if you don't let the right elbow/upper arm move back behind your vertical shirt seam. Think of keeping your right elbow and wrist more in line with each other vertically. Either way, you want your elbow to lead the way down and this may not be very easy if it is too far behind you. Currently, your tendency is to leave your elbow back and lead down first with your hands due to sequencing issues.
Check out this youtube clip of Alvaro Quiros (YouTube - Alvaro Quiros Smashing a Driver 346 Yards) from down the line. He is in a similar position to you at the top but as his club lays off slightly in transition, his hands stay where they are vertically as a slight external rotation of his right upper arm allows the elbow to lead the hands down.
You can also see in this clip of him (YouTube - Alvaro Quiros Swing Vision) that as he reaches the top of the backswing and moves down into his left side, his right scapula slides in toward his spinal column exactly like when you pull your arm back to throw a baseball, football (Johnny Unitas position), or cast a lure except he doesn't let the elbow fly. While the scapula is locked in place by being fully retracted back and down toward the spine, it stabilizes the shoulder joint and allows the humerus to rotate and be pulled down ahead of the hands by a properly sequenced pivot.

Still, the transition/counterfall/weight shift/Run Up, etc. to the left still needs to be solidified so that a proper downswing sequence is possible.
 
I will take a look at those videos tonight. I actually have to go out and play this afternoon. So I'm not going to worry about the swing to much, just go out and hit it around a bit.

Counterfall, I greatly appreciate all your comments. I think if I continue to gain more understanding of doing things, I will be able to get there no problem!
 
check out this link for some visuals of Pull Back, Run Up, & the Jump. Notice he Jumps mostly with his weight on his left heel (better for the knee joint).
YouTube - Tiger Woods 94-96 US Amateur Golf Swing Video Show

Just checked out this and the other videos. I see what you mean about Qurio's swing. I know that elbow needs to lead on the way down. Just a matter of getting it that way.

As for the Pull Back, Run Up, and The Jump.. I think I understand and see what you mean in tigers swing. The weight moves slightly forward from the top, than to the left hell, not toward the out step of the left foot? Because I always feel a lot of weight on the out step of my left foot on the down swing.

However I cannot find the topic you mentioned about Brain discussing these things?
 
Just checked out this and the other videos. I see what you mean about Qurio's swing. I know that elbow needs to lead on the way down. Just a matter of getting it that way.

As for the Pull Back, Run Up, and The Jump.. I think I understand and see what you mean in tigers swing. The weight moves slightly forward from the top, than to the left hell, not toward the out step of the left foot? Because I always feel a lot of weight on the out step of my left foot on the down swing.

However I cannot find the topic you mentioned about Brain discussing these things?

I added a link at the bottom of reply #25. Scroll over the last sentence. It is the link to the thread.


The Run Up is the shoulder, hip, and knee moving back to the left during transition to a point lower (and maybe a little more left) than they were at setup(moving the lowpoint thusly). The Jump then becomes necessary to raise the low point enough so that you don't strike oil with the depth of your divot.




 
I added a link at the bottom of reply #25. Scroll over the last sentence. It is the link to the thread.


The Run Up is the shoulder, hip, and knee moving back to the left during transition to a point lower (and maybe a little more left) than they were at setup(moving the lowpoint thusly). The Jump then becomes necessary to raise the low point enough so that you don't strike oil with the depth of your divot.





Ok, well I no doubt have a good understanding of the idea of the Pull Back, Run Up, and Jump. But how exactly to I work on the Run Up, and the Jump portion? I Believe the Pull Back I make is alright. (Considering I could work on club/hand/elbow position, no doubtfully). But what do I do to work on that transition of the Run Up and Jump?

The way I am understanding this is; My swing goes from Pull Back, straight to Jump? The Run Up portion, or transition portion of the weight moving back to left side, is not happening in my swing? Or at least not happening at the correct time?
 
Ok, well I no doubt have a good understanding of the idea of the Pull Back, Run Up, and Jump. But how exactly to I work on the Run Up, and the Jump portion? I Believe the Pull Back I make is alright. (Considering I could work on club/hand/elbow position, no doubtfully). But what do I do to work on that transition of the Run Up and Jump?

The way I am understanding this is; My swing goes from Pull Back, straight to Jump? The Run Up portion, or transition portion of the weight moving back to left side, is not happening in my swing? Or at least not happening at the correct time?

I believe you are understanding it correctly. However, the dynamic quality of the sequence may be such that if one of the three of these elements is missing, you are missing more than 1/3 of your swing. In other words, it may very well be that the "whole is greater than the sum of its parts"- a synergistic system.
For instance, in the case where someone is missing the Jump (a pretty powerful, explosive component), it likely also means that the Run Up is not as pronounced (or missing) because the club would in fact go straight into the ground. The reverse would also be true; if the Run Up seems to be missing, then the Jump cannot be nearly as explosive or visually dynamic. In this 3-element model, the backswing seems to function to prepare and set up the system in gathering potential energy, the Run Up seems to function in loading the system to deliver the energy, and the Jump functions to magnify and deliver the energy carried into impact (the ultimate objective). Brian mentions VJ Trolio in regard to Hogan's shift to the left during the backswing. He has a book and video called Final Missing Piece where he details what Brian terms the Run Up. Get a good Run Up by loading down into the left side and an explosive Jump will be necessary.

Now, allow me to rant almost endlessly:
When I mentioned these three elements to my uncle (kinesiologist invovled in college sports), he said it sounds a lot like the Long Jump elements. There are 4:

1. Run Up- Gathering Speed is the goal but also tempo and rhythm are important so that you build speed/momentum gradually and peak at the right point. The last 2 strides of the run up are separated from the rest of the runup and are called the Amortization Phase- the hips lower and the first of the 2 strides is noticeably longer but more 'bouncy' than the the speed building strides preceeding it. The second stride is a bit shorter stride to better coordinate the Take off
2. Take Off- the end of the runway where you step on a precise spot called the board to Jump into the air and convert some of the horizontal enrgy into vertical energy
3. Flight- self-explanatory but still has technique
4. Landing- same as above

It reminds me more of the phases of Plyometric power training. There are 3 stages:
1. Pre-stretch- elastic energy is generated and stored
2. Transition Phase- the brief pause between stage 1 and 3. The shorter it is, the more powerful the the contraction in stage 3. Wait too long, and you lose too much stored energy from stage 1
3. Concentric Phase- the explosive phase where quick muscle contraction releases all of the stored energy

Great parallels in terminology.
 
I believe you are understanding it correctly. However, the dynamic quality of the sequence may be such that if one of the three of these elements is missing, you are missing more than 1/3 of your swing. In other words, it may very well be that the "whole is greater than the sum of its parts"- a synergistic system.
For instance, in the case where someone is missing the Jump (a pretty powerful, explosive component), it likely also means that the Run Up is not as pronounced (or missing) because the club would in fact go straight into the ground. The reverse would also be true; if the Run Up seems to be missing, then the Jump cannot be nearly as explosive or visually dynamic. In this 3-element model, the backswing seems to function to prepare and set up the system in gathering potential energy, the Run Up seems to function in loading the system to deliver the energy, and the Jump functions to magnify and deliver the energy carried into impact (the ultimate objective). Brian mentions VJ Trolio in regard to Hogan's shift to the left during the backswing. He has a book and video called Final Missing Piece where he details what Brian terms the Run Up. Get a good Run Up by loading down into the left side and an explosive Jump will be necessary.

Now, allow me to rant almost endlessly:
When I mentioned these three elements to my uncle (kinesiologist invovled in college sports), he said it sounds a lot like the Long Jump elements. There are 4:

1. Run Up- Gathering Speed is the goal but also tempo and rhythm are important so that you build speed/momentum gradually and peak at the right point. The last 2 strides of the run up are separated from the rest of the runup and are called the Amortization Phase- the hips lower and the first of the 2 strides is noticeably longer but more 'bouncy' than the the speed building strides preceeding it. The second stride is a bit shorter stride to better coordinate the Take off
2. Take Off- the end of the runway where you step on a precise spot called the board to Jump into the air and convert some of the horizontal enrgy into vertical energy
3. Flight- self-explanatory but still has technique
4. Landing- same as above

It reminds me more of the phases of Plyometric power training. There are 3 stages:
1. Pre-stretch- elastic energy is generated and stored
2. Transition Phase- the brief pause between stage 1 and 3. The shorter it is, the more powerful the the contraction in stage 3. Wait too long, and you lose too much stored energy from stage 1
3. Concentric Phase- the explosive phase where quick muscle contraction releases all of the stored energy

Great parallels in terminology.

All of that makes great sense. Like a domino effect. If one part is just a bit off, the entire thing will be changed. So with this all in mind, how do I start to accomplish a better "Run Up"?

Ok, So from the top of the swing, I know that;
The weight needs to move back to the left side, by; 1: Latterly shifting a bit forward to establish a left pivot point correct? 2: The hips than rotate around to the left on that left pivot point. 3: At this point the weight should be back to the left side and the shoulders/arms/hands should now be coming back toward the ball. 4: To keep turning around that left pivot point and not stop.

Does that sound like it makes sense? I took some video today. I was really trying to feel that rotation of my hips to start the downswing. I no doubt have them more open at address. How it seems like when I do this, my right elbow tends to come off my body much more? I also took some video with a head cover under the right arm to keep it tucked closer on the downswing. How do I get these two motions to go hand in hand? i.e, the rotation of the hips being open at impact, and the right elbow staying closer?

I can still tell I made progress from a few weeks ago. I even hit a couple 8i's today that went 150 into a light wind, it really felt like I did nothing to hit it that far. I can't imagine how far I might hit it when I can completely get this down correctly. I will also post some video of my swing back in Feb. of this year. You can see a big difference. My arm now is at least inline with the club shaft, not leaning forward yet, but getting much closer.

Here is the progess; YouTube - Progress from Feb. to April.

Here is getting more to left side; YouTube - Left side load.

Now please keep the comments coming. I can feel myself getting closer and closer!
 
Alright,
First, you may be better off looking at your swing face-on as you are doing it. Focus only on the waist down for now. The right arm leading the downswing is mostly a matter of the shoulders not starting down at the same time as the lower body. You are missing the element of letting the arms move more vertically to start the downswing rather than out toward the ball. Watch any youtube video of sergio garcia and notice his arms drop vertically before they rotate horizontally with the shoulder rotation.

Watch this video until you see that the last 5 seconds (back view) are basically a starting definition of the Run Up. It is almost like you are dropping your weight on your left leg before the hip rotation begins. Don't let the head move as far left with everything else. Avoid the stack and tilt type move.
YouTube - Ben Hogan Final MIssing Piece
 
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