Project X 6.0

[wulsy]

A question to the clubfitters:

What's the best alternative to the Project X 6.0? Been using it for about 4 years now and I'm finding it a bit too heavy and feel I really have to kill it to get any action out of the shaft. Not great with 9-irons and wedges. Traj is a bit to high, and I tend to hook it. Using a blade. Clubhead speed with a driver 115mph. Lots of lag and shaft bend in the transition and I sometimes struggle to get it released - when I do get lead deflection into impact however its a beautiful thang. Any ideas?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

KBS C-Taper, either S+ or X flex depending on how you like your irons to feel. Designed by Kim Braley, same guy who designed the project x and the KBS Tour. The C-taper is the direct competitor to the project x and most like it a whole lot better. Has the smooth KBS Tour feel but the project x ballflight, but even better.

Here's a link to the product:
KBS Steel Shafts : KBS C-Taper

Do some searches, most people love it. I am currently demoing one in a 7 iron and a wedge, i'll let you know what i think when i get it from my clubmaker.

 

[mgranato]

KBS C-Taper, either S+ or X flex depending on how you like your irons to feel. Designed by Kim Braley, same guy who designed the project x and the KBS Tour. The C-taper is the direct competitor to the project x and most like it a whole lot better. Has the smooth KBS Tour feel but the project x ballflight, but even better.

Here's a link to the product:
KBS Steel Shafts : KBS C-Taper

Do some searches, most people love it. I am currently demoing one in a 7 iron and a wedge, i'll let you know what i think when i get it from my clubmaker.

Just ordered these 2 min ago.

 

[wulsy]

Thanks Jim, appreciate that.

There's not too many hosels that aren't .370 though. Can they be fitted into a .370 parallel hosel somehow?

Tapered tips take me back to the good ole days....are they making a comeback? I wonder what the advantage is of the TT? There must be one, cos I bet they're more expensive to produce...

 

[footwedge]

Shims.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Thanks Jim, appreciate that.

There's not too many hosels that aren't .370 though. Can they be fitted into a .370 parallel hosel somehow?

Tapered tips take me back to the good ole days....are they making a comeback? I wonder what the advantage is of the TT? There must be one, cos I bet they're more expensive to produce...

You can shim them, any competent clubfitter should be able too. However i have heard rumblings about them doing a parallel tip version as well. Give them a call and see if/when they will be available.

 

[wulsy]

ok, thanks.

 

[Jwat]

I was using PX 6.5 and was just fitted for wedges with Edel golf. They fit me for the C-tapers to help lower my trajectory. I wouldn't recommend going with the Xflex, they put me in S+ for my wedges. And when I was fitted for irons at cool clubs they had me at a 6.4 freq. My swing speed with a 6 iron is 92mph and 115 with my driver. But maybe I swing my wedges softer and thats why they put me in the S+ instead of the X

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

you can't go by blind frequency readings, the shaft design alone will show higher frequency readings compared to say a true temper dynamic gold. it's the same issue when people would try and compare frequencies with project x.

I would say you could play S+ or X and just decide which performs better for you.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

But maybe I swing my wedges softer and thats why they put me in the S+ instead of the X

Almost everyone goes softer in wedges, i think the #1 wedge shaft on tour is the S400 followed by the S300. No one likes an X100 in their wedge. I am testing a S+ in my wedge and an X in my 7 iron. I should be receiving them this week, i'll provide some feedback.

 

[Jwat]

Almost everyone goes softer in wedges, i think the #1 wedge shaft on tour is the S400 followed by the S300. No one likes an X100 in their wedge. I am testing a S+ in my wedge and an X in my 7 iron. I should be receiving them this week, i'll provide some feedback.

That makes since. First time I have ever been fit for wedges so it was new to me on the softer shaft. Plus the fact I was only hitting my 56-100 & 52-115. Couldn't ever figure that out when I hit my 6i 190.

Jim do u think the c-tapers lower trajectory compared to a px 6.5? Doesn't feel like my trajectory is much different in my new wedges. Since I pick the ball they put all my weight on the top of the head vs the bottom so if anything slightly adjusted trajectory it was that.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I don't have enough to compare. They are supposed to be by 5%, but 5% is hard tell visually especially with a wedge. If you want to hit your wedges further, then replace them with something stiffer, just note you will probably lose some greenside spin.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Ok

I went to the range last night and did some club testing. I am currently gaming some Ping S58's with their stock ZZ65 shaft. From what i could find out about them it is essentially a lightweight S300 shaft that Ping has True Temper make for them. I had my club guy put a KB C-Taper X flex into a spare ping s58 7 iron that i use as demo club so i can compare to my normal 7 iron.

First impressions are that it reminds of a smoother project x. Has that trademark "kick" through impact and feels stiff in the tip section. However the ball gets up high, flattens out quickly, and then keeps going. Also similarly to project x shafts it has that "heavy" feeling. Where more of the weight feels towards the head. I have to put both my current and the demo on a swing weight scale to see if it is just a swing weight issue but i doubt it. I remember when i toyed with project x before it had that similar "heavy" feeling as well.

The X flex c-taper is quite the beast of a shaft. I have attached a file that i found on another site that compares the raw frequencies for dynamic gold, project x, and the c-taper. Since the c-taper should frequency and play similarly to a project x, the c-taper x flex frequencies out to a 7.2 which is closest to a Project x 7.0 soft stepped once . I couldn't consistently load the shaft that well and i struggled with it as you might expect. I am going to exchange it for a S+ which is much closer to X100 territory.

Speaking of the S+ i had my club guy put one in a wedge and in that head it felt slightly stiff but it was much more manageable. Since it is in a wedge and less stiff than the x it to me felt like i had a X100 in my wedge which always feels like poop. However ironically i spent a lot of time with that wedge in the short game area and didn't have any issues with it there but in fuller shots it felt like that more traditional PX type feel but with a smoother kick.

As i have always said most good players can with just about anything but usually fall into really liking either dynamic gold type products or rifle products. Generally i've been more of a dg guy as every experiment with project x and now this limited experiment with the c-taper just gives me an odd feel. I did try the KBS Tour for a time as well but those seemed to hit quite the moon ball even compared to my ZZ65 shaft.

I am going to try a c-taper S+ in my demo 7 iron and get the swing weight to match my current 7 iron and see what happens. If i don't like it enough i think i'm going to back to my trusty DG X100 in my next set of conforming irons.

 

[Jwat]

Thanks for the review Jim. Look forward to hearing how the S+ works.

 

[mgranato]

The C-Tapers X I ordered should be here tomorrow. I'll put up a comparative review with S400, X100, and PX 6.5 (original satins) with some launch monitor numbers and screen shots.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Awesome mgrantato.

Also btw, my c-taper 7 iron measured @ D5 at full length (he forgot to make the club 1/4" short) and my normal 7 iron is D1. So maybe chop off the 1/4" (which btw i was swinging it last night with it gripped down to same length) and it might be D3.5 or so. So even though it is a few sw points higher it FEELS like it's like 10 which to me has been a trademark feel of project x. Almost like swinging a sledgehammer.

As a comparison their KBS Tour shafts have the OPPOSITE effect and tend to reduce swingweight from say a DG shaft and feel lighter. Generally KBS recommends the Tour shaft for DG guys and C-tapers for more project x guys.

 

[wulsy]

Intersting stuff Jim. Nice to hear how they feel it from the point of view of a player. I'm the same with the PXs. It feels like the shafts are filled with lead. I've enjoyed the balloon flight with the longer irons but the short irons just fly strange - like they go higher than they go far: 140 yds up 120 yds forward!

Sounds like I might be better off with the KBS Tour: after all I did grow up playing the old DGs. What about the DG Black Golds: any experience with those badboys?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

The more up than forward sounds like a ballooning effect, ballooning comes from too much ball spin. GENERALLY that is from too soft a shaft. I've never hit a project x (or even now a c-taper) SHORTER than say a comparable DG because simply they take spin off the ball and just like a driver that should allow you to hit it slightly further, maybe 3-7 yards depending.

So if you are hitting it shorter and you are describing the flight correctly they are not stiff enough for you. However if you are mis-reading the ball flight, it's possible it reduced spin TOO much on you and they launch initially high but then "fall out of the sky" it's because there wasn't enough spin to keep it in the air. In this case you would need to go DOWN in flex.

Black Golds were a while ago, i don't remember much about them. Essentially they were supposed to be a true temper product that was already frequencied match (since DG's aren't) to rival Rifle products. They also were a CPM matched before hand so you could just install and go. They were also descending weight like rifles and not constant weight like DG, Project X, or C-taper.

 

[wulsy]

Maybe described it a bit wrong. They go far, but start high. The short irons do fall out of the sky a bit though, and in fact I'm longer with the longer irons than with the shorter come to think of it....Maybe I need to go a flex down with the 9-SW. My 5 iron flies about 200yds and my 9 iron only about 140, so it would seem I'm getting the shaft to work with the longer irons more than with the shorter ones. Is that a normal phenomenon: softer shafts in the shorter irons? Would seem to make sense...

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

update

my stock 7 iron was D1, the 7 iron demo was D5. I had a local place chop it down to same length and re-grip it with the same grip. Came out to D2 so basically undetectable. I hit the iron MUCH MUCH better and didn't feel no where near as boardy. So now i'm torn, i think they are too stiff for me but i can still hit it fine and it doesn't feel like a pole anymore. Amazing what a few points of swingweight will do won't it?

I might put a S+ in my real 7 iron and then put them both on a monitor and see which is better. I could see myself playing these, the heave swingweight was a big deal to me.