Radial motion

[mandrin]

GLOSSARY

AXE HANDLE/ROPE HANDLE

Mechanical –Thrust against an Axe Handle can produce a centered motion. Against a Rope it cannot.
Golf – The continuous thrust against the Clubshaft moves the Clubhead radially. (The Axe Handle procedure.)
The initial Thrust accelerating the Clubshaft longitudinally is the Rope Handle procedure.

1–H..... And the dictionary is usually considered a standard of precision.


If one looks up the meaning of radial in a dictionary one will find typically:

1- made in the direction of a radius; going from the center outward or from the circumference inward along a radius.
2- acting along or in the direction of the radius of a circle; radial motion; radial velocity.

Considering the definition of radial in the dictionary what did HK have in mind when he defined radial motion to occur, for the clubhead, using the Axe Handle procedure?

 

[golfie]

A good question Mandrin. Something that I too an curious about. Personally I wish that HK was was referring to the left arm (or alternatively the entire primary lever assembly) rather than the clubshaft. This would make more sense to me especially as a distinction between Hitting and Swinging. That way Axe Handle and Rope Handle technique could have been referring to the Handle of the Golfer's Flail which would be the left arm.

Golfie

 

[mandrin]

golfie, perhaps a good question but where are those who might possibly enlighten us?

TGM is all about geometry and hence I expect there to be someone with an explanation.

 

[Non-AuthorizedTGM]

Go to Lowes and buy an Axe handle and see/feel it for yourself...Radial acceleration...view as in radians....moves like a spoke on a wheel...but driven by a Linear motion..This in TGM terms is called "Hitting"...Go Back to Home Depot and Purchase a 4ft Piece of Rope.....Very Hard to push or drive a rope in a circle or a straight line unless being pulled at each end ...Try to substitute this rope for the clubshaft try to make it go in a circle...need to accelerate it lenghtwise(longitudinally) first so it can "stretchout" before it orbits into an angular motion....This is called "Swinging" in TGM...

It is very difficult for something to move radially and longitudinally at the same time!!!


NAT

 

[mandrin]

NAT,

I didn’t not ask how Homer defines hitting or swinging, but instead simply asked where the clubhead is going when it has a radial motion.

Look it up anywhere, it only takes a few clicks with your mouse, the meaning of radial, radial motion, radial velocity and radial acceleration.

For instance, the latter is also known as centripetal acceleration. It acts towards the center of the circle.

Radial acceleration (=centripetal acceleration) is very different parameter than radian. A radian is a unit of angular displacement through which an object rotates.

Associated with angular displacement (radians) there are angular velocity and angular acceleration.

NAT, nice try but no cigar. I am still in the ark as to what HK had in mind with a radial motion for the clubhead.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Another missed opportunity for Mandrin.

Just comment on NAT's post and blow it up if you can, ok?

I can pull and push at the same time, so there Mandude, one for you.

 

[Non-AuthorizedTGM]

Mandarin...
It wasn't radial motion of the Clubhead it was radial acceleration of the shaft for hitters...Get your facts straight!!!
You don't need to treat me like a freakin 3rd grader...Unlike the rest of these guys around that you piss all over around here... I've taken graduate level biomechanics from one of experts in the field...I don't need a self proclaimed expert like you to tell me what angular acceleration is and what angular velocity is...i know the freakin difference...better yet I can demonstrate it with my own swing rather than discuss it's theories on a forum...besides I will have the credentials in the field of Biomechanics after I finish my MBA first....You obviously don't know the difference between Sequential Motion(pull-Drag) and Simultaneous motions in Biomechanics(push-Drive)....My esteemed colleague Dr. Brian Bergerman who has one of the earliest PhD's in Biomechanics is quickly discovering that there is another motion out there that deviates from the ideal "wheel-axel mechanism"...maximum transfer of angular momentum, whip cracking model out there...he calls it an "inferior" pushing motion...quite interesting isn't it?... Maybe that's why you... who is all knowing can't figure it out...you're pride is blinding you!!!

Perhaps always trying to prove how much you know..perhaps it's time you step back and look at all the experience/expertise you have in the field of golf instruction

Know you come of as "Big Dog" here on this forum with your condescending bark....Let's see your bite!!! Bring your your motion on this forum or better yet bring your game!!!!

I have!!! As others on this forum have previously seen...Swinging or Hitting!!!

A pissed off GNAT!!!

 

[mandrin]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Another missed opportunity for Mandrin.

Just comment on NAT's post and blow it up if you can, ok?

I can pull and push at the same time, so there Mandude, one for you.

Just viewing Mark Evershed’s very, very interesting Online Academy. It is of interest that he is fanatic about defintions and correct use of words. This is what HK seeingly says in 1-H.

Brainy, you have studied TGM for many, many years so you are surely able to answer my simple question,

What did HK had in mind with a radial motion for the clubhead?

 

[mrodock]

Brian,

Can we give NAT the nod for post of the year thus far?

Matt

 

[mandrin]

quote:Originally posted by Non-AuthorizedTGM

Mandarin...
It wasn't radial motion of the Clubhead it was radial acceleration of the shaft for hitters...Get your facts straight!!!
You don't need to treat me like a freakin 3rd grader...Unlike the rest of these guys around that you piss all over around here... I've taken graduate level biomechanics from one of experts in the field...I don't need a self proclaimed expert like you to tell me what angular acceleration is and what angular velocity is...i know the freakin difference...better yet I can demonstrate it with my own swing rather than discuss it's theories on a forum...besides I will have the credentials in the field of Biomechanics after I finish my MBA first....You obviously don't know the difference between Sequential Motion(pull-Drag) and Simultaneous motions in Biomechanics(push-Drive)....My esteemed colleague Dr. Brian Bergerman who has one of the earliest PhD's in Biomechanics is quickly discovering that there is another motion out there that deviates from the ideal "wheel-axel mechanism"...maximum transfer of angular momentum, whip cracking model out there...he calls it an "inferior" pushing motion...quite interesting isn't it?... Maybe that's why you... who is all knowing can't figure it out...you're pride is blinding you!!!

Perhaps always trying to prove how much you know..perhaps it's time you step back and look at all the experience/expertise you have in the field of golf instruction

Know you come of as "Big Dog" here on this forum with your condescending bark....Let's see your bite!!! Bring your your motion on this forum or better yet bring your game!!!!

I have!!! As others on this forum have previously seen...Swinging or Hitting!!!

A pissed off GNAT!!!

NAT, rather emotional reaction. [] Before you are losing it all, could you please simply answer my question.

What did HK have in mind with a radial motion for the clubhead?

 

[Non-AuthorizedTGM]

Answer:It's angular motion of the clubhead..radial acceleration of the clubshaft!!!

How many corrections do you think there are in the yellow book?


Homer had a ton of them in each edition....perhaps this is one of them that needed to be corrected


The measure of one's intelligence is not to be judged by an IQ Test, Standardized Test Score ,their Grade Point Average, or even where they get their diploma...But Rather..."The ability to distinguish the apparent differences from the apparent similiarities!"


Since you are having difficulty distinguishing between angular motion of the clubhead and radial acceleration of the clubshaft...this might be an indicator!!!


Perhaps this is why you have difficulty distinguishing between an apparent sweetspot plane that is not visible ...nor according to you even exists...


I'm still waiting for you to bring your motion or game to this forum...until then I'll just try to gain control over my emotions...since I'm lacking thereof!!!

NAT

 

[mandrin]

NAT,

Let’s put up again HK’s phrase from the glossary to refresh your memory:

“The continuous thrust against the Clubshaft moves the Clubhead radially.”

There is no doubt that HK is saying that the clubhead is moving radially. Agreed?

Forget about me, it is about Homer. Hence, why not simply answer my question.

What did HK have in mind with a radial motion for the clubhead?

 

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by Non-AuthorizedTGM



I'm still waiting for you to bring your motion or game to this forum...until then I'll just try to gain control over my emotions...since I'm lacking thereof!!!

Forget it NAT, I'd say the guy is more interested in doing what he's doing now rather than play better golf. He'll just ignore you and won't put anything up.

 

[mandrin]

quote:Originally posted by tongzilla

quote:Originally posted by Non-AuthorizedTGM



I'm still waiting for you to bring your motion or game to this forum...until then I'll just try to gain control over my emotions...since I'm lacking thereof!!!

Forget it NAT, I'd say the guy is more interested in doing what he's doing now rather than play better golf. He'll just ignore you and won't put anything up.

Tongzilla, why don’t you give it a try to enlighten us all.

What did HK have in mind with a radial motion for the clubhead?

NAT, an expert in biomechanics is now admitting, in his heavily edited post, that HK likely made an error. What is your understanding?

 

[rundmc]

Yo Dorkalishush!!!

This is what Homer had in mind

Radial - Anatomy. Of, relating to, or near the radius or forearm.

Shouldn't you be watering the dingleberry tree for Dorkfest 2006?

If you build it, they will come.

 

[mandrin]

Rundmc, good thing you are there. You are adding a light touch to all those very important earth-shattering golf discussions.

TGM forums are heavily laden with extremely serious people defending tooth and nails their dogmatic believes.

Usually I am quite busy watering the dingleberry tree, but today quite a bit of rain and hence have some spare time to ask you a question.

Homer states, and everybody repeats it faithfully, that radial and longitudinal acceleration, for the club, are mutually exlusive.

However, with a golf swing being approximately a non-uniform circular motion we have by definition simultaneously both radial and longitudinal acceleration.

It is either one or the other. It can’t both ways at the same time.

NAT, our resident biomechanic’s expert has already admitted Homer’s allusion to radial motion for the clubhead to be an error. Could there to be another?

Please explain it promptly since tomorrow it is supposed to be quite dry and I will be busy watering the dingleberry tree the whole day.

 

[strav]

Mandrin, if this forum ever decides to elect an official Devil's Advocate you have my vote.
No one does it better!

 

[palmreader]

Mandrin,

It is pretty basic high school physics (senior year if I remember correctly) and everyone (who completed high school, not the drop outs) knows that any object moving in a curve has both radial and longitudinal accelration as a function of angular acceleration and angular velocity. HK being an enginner couldn't have said that they are mutually exclusive. I think you are making it up to upset the forum members [}]. When you are at it today, please don't put too much water, you might kill the roots.

 

[rundmc]

quote:Originally posted by mandrin

Rundmc, good thing you are there. You are adding a light touch to all those very important earth-shattering golf discussions.

TGM forums are heavily laden with extremely serious people defending tooth and nails their dogmatic believes.

Usually I am quite busy watering the dingleberry tree, but today quite a bit of rain and hence have some spare time to ask you a question.

Homer states, and everybody repeats it faithfully, that radial and longitudinal acceleration, for the club, are mutually exlusive.

However, with a golf swing being approximately a non-uniform circular motion we have by definition simultaneously both radial and longitudinal acceleration.

It is either one or the other. It can’t both ways at the same time.

NAT, our resident biomechanic’s expert has already admitted Homer’s allusion to radial motion for the clubhead to be an error. Could there to be another?

Please explain it promptly since tomorrow it is supposed to be quite dry and I will be busy watering the dingleberry tree the whole day.

Dorkballio,

Thanks for the complement . . . I feel sooooooo special. Maybe you could give me a front row ticket to the big Dorkfest 2006 Dungeon's and Dragons Throwdown? Man I hope no bad people come . . .

Here are all the references to RADIAL in the 6th Edition.

6-B-3-0 THE THIRD POWER ACCUMULATOR Power Accumulator #3 is formed by the angle established between the Clubshaft and the Left Forearm. Accumulator #3 should never be “Out-of-Line – instead, it seeks to MAINTAIN its radial</u> alignment with the Left Arm and Left Wrist vertical to its associated Plane. So, basically, Accumulator #3 Hand Motion (4-D-0) is “Clubface Control,” “Rhythm Control,” and “Roll Power Control” of the Right Elbow (7-3). Study 2-G and 7-20.

E. Associate the following with “Hitting” (10-19-A). See 7-19.
1. Angled Hinging (7-10)
2. Simultaneous Release (4-D-0)
3. Grip Rotation (7-2)
4. Single Wrist Action (10-18-C-2)
5. Active Right Elbow (7-20)
6. Fixed Lag Pressure Point (“10-11-0-3”)
7. Radial Acceleration </u>(10-19-A)


10-19-0 GENERAL Lag Loading (Clubhead Feel) is classified according to difference in the procedures for accelerating the Secondary Lever Assembly (the Club). That is – Radially or Longitudinally – which are mutually exclusive. That is – both cannot be applied at the same time. All of which, alos determines the nature of their execution – that is, Drive the one (10-19-A), Drag the other (10-19-C) or Flick either one (10-19-B) into Release. Study 7-3. This affects the Feel and emphasis of the entire motion. Especially Clubhead Lag Pressure Point participation. All must comply with the Law of the Flail in 2-K.

10-19-A DRIVE LOADING Drive Loading is the “Axe Handle” technique of the “Hitter” – an out-and-out Right Arm Thrust against Clubhead Lag (Angular Inertia) striving to accelerate (radially</u>) a Pre-stressed (Bent) Clubhshaft, from a slow Start Down through Impact. Per 7-19-1. See 2-N.

All Short Shots can be short, strong Strokes, eliminating all unnecessary motion by using only the one Accumulator (until greater distance is needed). But always –PUSH a lagging Clubhead through Impact.

AXE HANDLE/ROPE HANDLE Example – Power Shovel vs. Drag Line.
Mechanical – Thrust against an Axe Handle can produce centered motion. Against a rope it cannot.
Golf – The continuous thrust against the Clubshaft moves the Clubhead radially</u>.

HITTING AND SWINGING Example – the catapult vs. the sling.
Mechanical – Continuous thrust producing steady acceleration of a hinged beam is Hitting action. A rotating arm pulling steadily on a weighted line is a swinging action.
Golf – Accelerating the Club radially</u> with Right Arm Thrust is Hitting. Accelerating the Club longitudinally, with either arm is Swinging.


All the dude is saying is with respect to the RADIUS of the Stroke. The Left Arm and The Club. The Primary Lever Assembly. PUSHED with the Right Forearm. RADIAL with respect to RADIUS and FOREARM.

What's the big deal Dookyball?

 

[mandrin]

quote:Originally posted by palmreader

Mandrin,

It is pretty basic high school physics (senior year if I remember correctly) and everyone (who completed high school, not the drop outs) knows that any object moving in a curve has both radial and longitudinal accelration as a function of angular acceleration and angular velocity. HK being an enginner couldn't have said that they are mutually exclusive. I think you are making it up to upset the forum members [}]. When you are at it today, please don't put too much water, you might kill the roots.

HK did indeed say that they are mutually exclusive, even if you think it to be common knowledge for the non-dropouts, knowing it to be definitely not the case. (10-19-0)

You are not a careful reader of TGM forums; it is being referred to quite often. Just in this very thread NAT is mentioning it in his first post.

How could you possible imagine that I made this up to upset the forum members. Far from me to want to disturb the peace. I just quietly water the dingleberry tree.