Radial motion

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quote:Originally posted by rundmc

Dorkballio,

Thanks for the complement . . . I feel sooooooo special. Maybe you could give me a front row ticket to the big Dorkfest 2006 Dungeon's and Dragons Throwdown? Man I hope no bad people come . . .

Here are all the references to RADIAL in the 6th Edition.

6-B-3-0 THE THIRD POWER ACCUMULATOR Power Accumulator #3 is formed by the angle established between the Clubshaft and the Left Forearm. Accumulator #3 should never be “Out-of-Line – instead, it seeks to MAINTAIN its radial</u> alignment with the Left Arm and Left Wrist vertical to its associated Plane. So, basically, Accumulator #3 Hand Motion (4-D-0) is “Clubface Control,” “Rhythm Control,” and “Roll Power Control” of the Right Elbow (7-3). Study 2-G and 7-20.

E. Associate the following with “Hitting” (10-19-A). See 7-19.
1. Angled Hinging (7-10)
2. Simultaneous Release (4-D-0)
3. Grip Rotation (7-2)
4. Single Wrist Action (10-18-C-2)
5. Active Right Elbow (7-20)
6. Fixed Lag Pressure Point (“10-11-0-3”)
7. Radial Acceleration </u>(10-19-A)


10-19-0 GENERAL Lag Loading (Clubhead Feel) is classified according to difference in the procedures for accelerating the Secondary Lever Assembly (the Club). That is – Radially or Longitudinally – which are mutually exclusive. That is – both cannot be applied at the same time. All of which, alos determines the nature of their execution – that is, Drive the one (10-19-A), Drag the other (10-19-C) or Flick either one (10-19-B) into Release. Study 7-3. This affects the Feel and emphasis of the entire motion. Especially Clubhead Lag Pressure Point participation. All must comply with the Law of the Flail in 2-K.

10-19-A DRIVE LOADING Drive Loading is the “Axe Handle” technique of the “Hitter” – an out-and-out Right Arm Thrust against Clubhead Lag (Angular Inertia) striving to accelerate (radially</u>) a Pre-stressed (Bent) Clubhshaft, from a slow Start Down through Impact. Per 7-19-1. See 2-N.

All Short Shots can be short, strong Strokes, eliminating all unnecessary motion by using only the one Accumulator (until greater distance is needed). But always –PUSH a lagging Clubhead through Impact.

AXE HANDLE/ROPE HANDLE Example – Power Shovel vs. Drag Line.
Mechanical – Thrust against an Axe Handle can produce centered motion. Against a rope it cannot.
Golf – The continuous thrust against the Clubshaft moves the Clubhead radially</u>.

HITTING AND SWINGING Example – the catapult vs. the sling.
Mechanical – Continuous thrust producing steady acceleration of a hinged beam is Hitting action. A rotating arm pulling steadily on a weighted line is a swinging action.
Golf – Accelerating the Club radially</u> with Right Arm Thrust is Hitting. Accelerating the Club longitudinally, with either arm is Swinging.


All the dude is saying is with respect to the RADIUS of the Stroke. The Left Arm and The Club. The Primary Lever Assembly. PUSHED with the Right Forearm. RADIAL with respect to RADIUS and FOREARM.

What's the big deal Dookyball?
quote:Originally posted by palmreader

It is pretty basic high school physics (senior year if I remember correctly) and everyone (who completed high school, not the drop outs) knows that any object moving in a curve has both radial and longitudinal accelration as a function of angular acceleration and angular velocity. HK being an enginner couldn't have said that they are mutually exclusive. I think you are making it up to upset the forum members [}:)].
rundmc,

I invite you to take it up with palmreader, since he is effectively implying that you are a highschool dropout. :D

I got you a nice front row ticket to the big Dorkfest 2006 Dungeon's and Dragons Throwdown. [8D]
 

rundmc

Banned
quote:Originally posted by mandrin

quote:Originally posted by palmreader

Mandrin,

It is pretty basic high school physics (senior year if I remember correctly) and everyone (who completed high school, not the drop outs) knows that any object moving in a curve has both radial and longitudinal accelration as a function of angular acceleration and angular velocity. HK being an enginner couldn't have said that they are mutually exclusive. I think you are making it up to upset the forum members [}:)]. When you are at it today, please don't put too much water, you might kill the roots.:D
HK did indeed say that they are mutually exclusive, even if you think it to be common knowledge for the non-dropouts, knowing it to be definitely not the case. (10-19-0)

You are not a careful reader of TGM forums; it is being referred to quite often. Just in this very thread NAT is mentioning it in his first post.

How could you possible imagine that I made this up to upset the forum members. Far from me to want to disturb the peace. I just quietly water the dingleberry tree. :D

Drop-out here . . . . What are we to infer from your line of thought that "push and pulling" are not mutually exclusive?
 

rundmc

Banned
quote:Originally posted by mandrin
I invite you to take it up with palmreader, since he is effectively implying that you are a highschool dropout. :D

I got you a nice front row ticket to the big Dorkfest 2006 Dungeon's and Dragons Throwdown. [8D]

First of all I didn't drop-out of high school . . . I just dropped-in every now and then.

You can send my tickets to:

Hugh G. Reckshun
100 A. Nal Wart Place
Flat Rock, NC 29233
 
First of all..not a Biomechanics expert..you're the expert around these parts... Second I did not infer that HK made an error ..I just raised the point that with every edition there has been corrections...Thirdly...Are you suggestion that Angular motion and radial motion are different? They can be inferred to be the same( A radius being accelerated radially around a center with the head moving in angular motion)What makes that different in regards to the Clubhead..where you miss the boat is how the clubshaft is acclerated......That is... longitudinal and radial acceleration are mutually exclusive...I am not a "Golfing Machine Dogmatic"...

Duh....Non Authorized TGM means not willing to join the cult!!! You hide behind your "intellectual speak" because obviously ....two things are very apparent..you're chicken to post your motion for all to "critique" and it's obvious you've got no game....So keep on playing Devil's advocate..that's the only game you got!!!

NAT
 
quote:Originally posted by Non-AuthorizedTGM

First of all..not a Biomechanics expert..you're the expert around these parts... Second I did not infer that HK made an error ..I just raised the point that with every edition there has been corrections...Thirdly...Are you suggestion that Angular motion and radial motion are different? They can be inferred to be the same( A radius being accelerated radially around a center with the head moving in angular motion)What makes that different in regards to the Clubhead..where you miss the boat is how the clubshaft is acclerated......That is... longitudinal and radial acceleration are mutually exclusive...I am not a "Golfing Machine Dogmatic"...

Duh....Non Authorized TGM means not willing to join the cult!!! You hide behind your "intellectual speak" because obviously ....two things are very apparent..you're chicken to post your motion for all to "critique" and it's obvious you've got no game....So keep on playing Devil's advocate..that's the only game you got!!!

NAT
1–H..... “And the dictionary is usually considered a standard of precision”.

NAT,

It is not about inventing words and/or inventing new meanings, it is about well established words and their precise scientific definition.

It is somewhat ironic that your spell out your educational accomplishments to impress upon me your worth and yet…..hope your game is better.

I am surprised that you stubbornly believe that radial and angular motion mean the same and idem that radial and longitudinal acceleration are mutually exclusive.

Read palmreader’s post - he considers it simple high school stuff. ;)
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
What we are really talking about here is really this:

Can you PUSH the powerpackage through? Yup.

Can you PULL the powerpackage through? Yup.

Can you do both? Yup.

Next subject.
 
Brian,

Are you sure you read through the various posts, being rather busy?

The discussion is not about the golf swing being a lead or trail side affair.

It is about Homer and his understanding of some simple scientific concepts.

Is that perhaps considered to be a sacrilege? [:p]
 

rundmc

Banned
quote:Originally posted by mandrin

Brian,

Are you sure you read through the various posts, being rather busy?

The discussion is not about the golf swing being a lead or trail side affair.

It is about Homer and his understanding of some simple scientific concepts.

Is that perhaps considered to be a sacrilege? [:p]

For all of us mouth breathers out here could you please enlighten us on what RADIAL ACCELERATION is and why it is giving you wood? Please leave the slide-rule mess out for the Drop-Out.
 
rundmc,

Whenever an object describes an arbitrary curvilinear path it wil experience both a longitudinal and a radial acceleration.

The longitudinal acceleration is tangent to the path whereas the radial acceleration it normal to the path.

For uniform circular motion the longitudinal acceleration is zero whereas the radial acceleration is then usally referred to as centripetal acceleration.

For non-unform circular motion however, somewhat like in a golf swing, the longitudianl acceleration is not equal to zero and both occur simultaneously.

Hence, as is done in TGM, claiming that radial and longitudinal acceleration can’t occur at the same time is not founded.
 

rundmc

Banned
quote:Originally posted by mandrin

rundmc,


The longitudinal acceleration is tangent to the path whereas the radial acceleration it normal to the path.

Lost me at this sentence . . . normal to what path? Looks like a typo but my drop-out brain cell may not have the firepower to make hay of that sentence.

Please re-write or clarify and we shall move along down your dubious and dastardly path.
 
quote:Originally posted by mandrin


Hence, as is done in TGM, claiming that radial and longitudinal acceleration can’t occur at the same time is not founded.
Does that mean I (and others) have been wasting their time studing TGM? Does that mean the improvements people get is not due to the wonderful information provided by Homer (since so much of the science is "not founded"), but due to other factors such as praticing harder and placebo effects? How can we use your information and equations to improve our golf game?
 
quote:Originally posted by tongzilla

quote:Originally posted by mandrin


Hence, as is done in TGM, claiming that radial and longitudinal acceleration can’t occur at the same time is not founded.
Does that mean I (and others) have been wasting their time studing TGM? Does that mean the improvements people get is not due to the wonderful information provided by Homer (since so much of the science is "not founded"), but due to other factors such as praticing harder and placebo effects? How can we use your information and equations to improve our golf game?
tongzilla, I have said this several times before. I make a sharp distinction between feel and real, hence between the instructions and their associated scientific explanations.

Therefore I don’t quibble with Homer’s instructional method; he was way ahead of his times. It is the scientific icing of the cake which is not up to the same standards.

Even if all of the more scientific notions of Homer were wrong it still does not in my mind take away the possible value of his golf instructions.

I don’t know if I can say it more strongly, but probably still confusing some.

Science is not necessary to play golf but it helps progressively to ground the teaching into structured coherent ideas and improved instructional methods.

It might prevent for instance to faithfully follow the idiosyncrasies of famous player(s) and stimulates instead to remain more with sound scientific ideas.

In the long run this is bound to improve the game of golf, certainly more than strictly basing oneself on feel. This has produced the multiple persistent myths in golf.
 
quote:Originally posted by mandrin


Therefore I don’t quibble with Homer’s instructional method; he was way ahead of his times. It is the scientific icing of the cake which is not up to the same standards.
What was Homer's instructional method? He didn't come up with an "instructional method" and then put a bit of science in to back him up. It's the other way round.

quote:Originally posted by mandrin


Even if all of the more scientific notions of Homer were wrong it still does not in my mind take away the possible value of his golf instructions.
What do you reckon is "the possible value of his golf instructions"?


quote:Originally posted by mandrin


Science is not necessary to play golf but it helps progressively to ground the teaching into structured coherent ideas and improved instructional methods.

It might prevent for instance to faithfully follow the idiosyncrasies of famous player(s) and stimulates instead to remain more with sound scientific ideas.

In the long run this is bound to improve the game of golf, certainly more than strictly basing oneself on feel. This has produced the multiple persistent myths in golf.
So how would you improve current instructional methods given your knowledge about radial motion, etc?
 
“Homer didn't come up with an "instructional method" and then put a bit of science in to back him up. It's the other way round.”

tongzilla,

That is interesting. Homer did hence some golf related scientific work before he worked on the various elements of the swing as put forward in TGM. I am interested. Can you refer me to it?
 
quote:Originally posted by rundmc

Are you gonna fix the sentence so we can continue the enlightenment process?
If an object is made to move along a curvilinear path such a golf swing there are changes in velocity and changes in the swing radius.

The change in the velocity is composed of a change in speed and a change in direction. Changing both components of velocity results in a curved path of motion.

If there is a change in velocity and swing radius means we have acceleration. In these cases, the acceleration vector is the sum of two parts.

One part, the tangential acceleration, acts along the direction of motion, parallel to the velocity, resulting in a change of speed.

The other part, the radial acceleration, acts perpendicular to the direction of motion, resulting in a change of direction.
 
quote:Originally posted by mandrin

“Homer didn't come up with an "instructional method" and then put a bit of science in to back him up. It's the other way round.”

tongzilla,

That is interesting. Homer did hence some golf related scientific work before he worked on the various elements of the swing as put forward in TGM. I am interested. Can you refer me to it?
Nope, I wish I could though!

Please answer questions from my previous post.
 
quote:Originally posted by tongzilla

quote:Originally posted by mandrin

“Homer didn't come up with an "instructional method" and then put a bit of science in to back him up. It's the other way round.”

tongzilla,

That is interesting. Homer did hence some golf related scientific work before he worked on the various elements of the swing as put forward in TGM. I am interested. Can you refer me to it?
Nope, I wish I could though!

Please answer questions from my previous post.
tongzilla,

Let’s try to be a bit more precise.

You can’t refer to Homer’s golf related scientific work, simply because you think he did but are not aware of any reference to it.

You can’t refer to Homer’s golf related scientific work, simply because it does not exist and you are wishing he had done it.

As with regard to your questions they are quite profound and I need time to nurture them a bit.
 
quote:Originally posted by mandrin


You can’t refer to Homer’s golf related scientific work, simply because it does not exist and you are wishing he had done it.
False assumption: just because you and I have not seen his research must mean that they do not exist.
 
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