Raising the left heel

[BIGBALL]

What is the current thinking on letting the left heel raise up on the backswing? I have always had a very short backswing which limits my power, and was messing around with this while hitting my 3 wood. I hit it noticeably better, especially power wise, when I let the heel come up, then forcefully stepped down on it in the downswing? It FELT as though I got a little more length in my backswing and quite a bit more power. I tried it with my driver, didn't work quite as well, but I think with a little bit of practice it would work there as well. Then again, it may be something that will work on shots off the deck, but not teed up drivers?

Thinking about it, coming from a baseball background, it kind of makes sense - maybe?

 

[natep]

I always do it, except for maybe shots inside of 150 yards. It takes the pressure off my lower back and lets me make a better turn. Better pivot, more power, no strain.

 

[BIGBALL]

I always do it, except for maybe shots inside of 150 yards. It takes the pressure off my lower back and lets me make a better turn. Better pivot, more power, no strain.

Interesting Nate. I have never done it, and I have chronic back issues since I started playing golf basically. How do you keep it from creeping in on the shorter shots? I guess it's just something you have to be conscious of for a while until it's second nature like anything else?

Now if I can lose the "left arm ramrod straight" thing I have going on...

 

[softconsult]

Based on Golf History, allowing the left heel to rise just a bit was the norm until the advent of restricted hip turn, minimal leg motion type of swing. I did it for years. Now with my advancing age and gut, I have to remind myself to let it happen.

 

[natep]

Interesting Nate. I have never done it, and I have chronic back issues since I started playing golf basically. How do you keep it from creeping in on the shorter shots? I guess it's just something you have to be conscious of for a while until it's second nature like anything else?

Now if I can lose the "left arm ramrod straight" thing I have going on...

Well, I dont lift the heel up just for the sake of it. I allow it to get pulled up by the pivot. So on a shortish shot with the scoring clubs (say 160 yards and in) I'm never swinging as hard as I can, maybe only 70%, and I usually make a shorter backswing with less turn, so it just never gets pulled up, or maybe it just comes half an inch or so off the ground. It's not something I ever consciously think about.

When I first started doing it, it felt very foreign. I definitely wasnt used to using my whole body during the swing, instead of mainly just the upper body. But it didnt take long for me to appreciate the much greater range of motion I had and also the best part about it, which is no strain at all on the body. I used to play and round of golf and 30 minutes after it was over I felt like I had been in a car wreck I was so sore. Now I can hit balls all day long with ease. Now it just feels ridiculous to even think about keeping the heel down because it strains the entire lower body and you lose power. You can look at the pivot of guys like Snead, guys who's swing lasted for decades, and see that they lifted the heel. I would recommend it to anyone, especially if they have flexibility or pain issues.

 

[lia41985]

Let the swing pull you off the right side like an athlete.

Stay light on the left foot longer so it adds a half beat to your downswing as well as giving you nothing to pull the left shoulder against.

When you have a free hip turn and arent on the left foot so quickly, the upper body pivot is a million times less likely to put the "transition torques" on your left arm and keep it high and rotated clockwise (for a righty)

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[drewyallop]

restricted hip turn, minimal leg motion type of swing

Worst idea for amateurs in years.

 

[ekennedy]

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Lia,

Do you think that the "transition torques" that Tiger builds at the top of his swing are so different than the slight pause that Hunter Mahan makes that the two swings could never be the same no matter how identical the positions ever become?

 

[lia41985]

Lia,

Do you think that the "transition torques" that Tiger builds at the top of his swing are so different than the slight pause that Hunter Mahan makes that the two swings could never be the same no matter how identical the positions ever become?

This is a concept Kevin turned me on to and he's much more knowledgeable in general--an answer from him would be way better than what you can get from me. Regardless, to me, they're left sides (left hip, leg, and knee) appear to work fairly differently (camera angles aren't perfect and all the other limitations that come with video comparisons):
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Tiger seems to look more lateral to vertical whereas Hunter seems to look more rotary--their left arms also work differently and there's probably a cause-effect relationship due to kinematic sequencing. It's very difficult to say anything with any sort of definitiveness without 3-D machines and CoG sensors. Hunter also seems to get the club working more left than Tiger but only way to really confirm that would be to see some Trackman numbers. Here's Hunter's pre-Foley swing:
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It appears his pre-Foley swing way fairly rotary. Foley may not have had to work too hard with Mahan on that aspect whereas with Tiger he's taking on someone who has been wide, upright, and steep at least since the Butch Harmon days. My definition of rotary is in accord with Brian's description of a swing that "covers it":

Covering the ball, in the vernacular that I am familiar with, means a higher, "on top of it" right shoulder through impact.

In our research, this works very well with flatter eventual sweetspot/CoG/GoI paths.

So, an example of a golfer who would aim left and cover it would be Ben Hogan.

 

[ekennedy]

Thanks Lia, I would love to hear Kevin or Brian's feelings on the matter of "transition torques."

I look at Tiger as an athlete that when the bell rings, his body reacts in his natural, athletic speed. Something that would be difficult, if not impossible to create on the back of the Isleworth driving range. He may be able to get the club in the exact same position as Hunter Mahan on the driving range, but at "game speed" he doesn't have nearly the body turn or pause that Hunter has grooved (and probably never will...). Hunter has always paused at the top and its quite possible that the "transition torques" that Tiger creates with his width, speed and rapid change of direction are what gives him the stuck feeling that he's always had, even periodically under Butch.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Stop the Tiger swing at the :18 second mark. Is that what he's after? I would think not.

 

[spktho]

Stop the Tiger swing at the :18 second mark. Is that what he's after? I would think not.

The lean left and his natural squat downswing do not and cannot match up, as both moves reduce the space to hit the ball. Seems to me to cpntribute to the chicken wing as you point out.

 

[ekennedy]

They do, however, increase his chances of hitting four inches behind the ball.

Something, that according to his ever-positive press conferences, are not that big of a deal.

 

[BIGBALL]

Worst idea for amateurs in years.

And of course, my dumba$$ bought right into it

 

[counterfall]

Tiger's flying left elbow in the follow through is really ugly. It looks like he is holding off a hook in that swing. Maybe he was trying for a fade? I personally liked Tiger's swing a lot right after he came back from his knee injury. I think he had trained that violent knee-snapping move out of the downswing and it helped his sequencing at first. An example of that swing can be seen at golf.com:
Tiger Woods Swing Sequence - 8 - Photos - Golf.com

I think he somehow ruined Hank's swing ideas with over-application of Hank's plane philosophy by flattening it TOO much after this point. Tiger's closed-hip squat and lower back arching in transition is unique and dynamic but it killed him when he overcooked those moves.

The Foley swing is probably too rotary for Tiger's tendencies and he may have trouble with it for some time to come. It seems like Tiger's version of the swing looks the closest to what Foley tries to teach compared to Mahan's version of the swing. Or to put it another way, Tiger's swing is more of a ground up rebuild and less of a simple incorporation of the Foley ideas compared to Mahan. His brain is probably dying to perform a down-the-line release as opposed to what he is trying to do now

 

[counterfall]

I have dabbled with raising the left heel. It works for me when I rush it at the top with the driver and 3-wood. When I use it as a drill, it puts me back in sequence I think because it adds an extra bit of rhythm that allows me to pause for a split second in transition. I don't use it on the course though.

 

[ej20]

Kicking in the left knee and raising the left heel on the backswing is frowned upon by most instructors these days which is a shame.If it was good enough for Hogan,Nicklaus and Snead then it can't be all that bad.We just don't see that kind of left knee action in the modern swing.

Hogan wrote in 5L it was a key to his swing which not many people or even Hogan experts talk about.

 

[ekennedy]

The unfortunate fact is that lifting the left heel without excessively moving the upper body and head toward the back foot (for most people) takes a bit of coordination. A truly great pivot cannot be posed at the top so most instructors have a hard time describing or demonstrating it to their students.

Selfishly, I'm glad most instructors don't teach it.

 

[birdie_man]

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Great clip lia. Great swing...! He woulda won a Masters if he was not "a stupid".

Anyhoo I don't see anything wrong, or fishy, or weird looking, with the swing shown in that clip. He persimmoned that old balata over 380!

I wonder what his swing would look like with a modern driver in hand. His finish looks not very much like good players today. Looks more like someone trying to strike a ball precisely...?

Interesting that his left heel starts to raise well before his left arm is parallel to the ground in the bs. So...pulled up or lifted manually?

He seems to start his backswing with a little bit of lower body movement...or a rocking...

As a side note...he had 230+ pro wins! I don't know what it took to win on the Arg and S America pro tours in the 1940s-80s, but that is a lot of wins. Won a Open and almost won a Masters. 7 PGA Tour and 9 Euro Tour wins.

 

[lia41985]

Tiger Woods Swing Sequence - 8 - Photos - Golf.com

Brady's definition of covered is different than Brian's:

Covering the ball, in the vernacular that I am familiar with, means a higher, "on top of it" right shoulder through impact.

In our research, this works very well with flatter eventual sweetspot/CoG/GoI paths.

So, an example of a golfer who would aim left and cover it would be Ben Hogan.

Brady's definition is left shoulder-centric and based on a face-on view of the swing whereas Brian's definition is right shoulder centric and based on a down-the-line view of the swing.