Right Arm Pickup...literally a pickup?

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DDL

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Hi:

I am used to swinging my arms on the backswing, and this feeling is distinctly different than when I attempt the right forearm pickup. With the pickup, my left arm is very bent, the right arm is closer to my body than with the swinging backstroke motion, and and the feeling is that I haven't actually coiled up.

SHould the right forearm pickup also feel like the swinging motion? I did the drill that 6b described for getting the right forearm on plane, and my hands are closer to my body, and I have the feeling that I am picking up the club instead of swinging it .More bicep effort, and less shoulder effort than usual. WOuld like to know if the feeling is correct befrore going on.

Thanks
 
You pick the club up the plane. You still need to apply extensor action to the left arm by stretching it with the right arm.
 

Mathew

Banned
If my notion of the right arm takeaway is correct. It should feel more like relaxed right arm sweeping motion the club back With your right arm and shoulder should all try to attempt to go straight back. I think 'pickup' is maybe one of those words that bring the wrong impression

Jump all over me if im incorrect on this

Perhaps ill make up a drill....

1/ Take address without a club and palms facing
2/ zero pivot for this step - swing back the right arm back and forth clapping the left hand
3/ Add your pivot - Do this by building on step 2 but this time think of the right shoulder going directly back as well (keeping to the inside of the right foot). This will start your pivot motion - Note how the shoulder brings the club inside :)

On a side note - with the right arm pickup you can add the right wristbend (vertical) - my preference or you can delay it till later on (bobby clappett sequence)
 

holenone

Banned
quote:Originally posted by mgjordan

You pick the club up the plane. You still need to apply extensor action to the left arm by stretching it with the right arm.

MG,

First your brilliant response to SuperDave Alford's anemic critique of Homer Kelley's Bobby Clampett Swing Analysis. Now your correct prescription of the Extensor Action technique that is invisible-to-the-untrained-naked eye, but absolutely indispensible to high-level golf.

You are getting very good!

Scary good!
 

Mathew

Banned
Is this what you are practicing in basic motion 12-5-1 by using accumulator no.4 and no.1 with extensor action ?
 

holenone

Banned
quote:Originally posted by Mathew

Is this what you are practicing in basic motion 12-5-1 by using accumulator no.4 and no.1 with extensor action ?

Yes. Most players wait far too long to get the Bending Right Elbow into action. They have been led astray by the instruction to "Take the Club away with your Shoulder Turn" and, by all means, "Preserve the Triangle."

This procedure is nothing more than a Paw Minor Basic Stroke Start Up (10-3-H) with both arms frozen (Bent or Straight) and a Shoulder Turn Takeaway. Though the Power Package is usually later assembled, the damage has been done: The true Orbit of the Clubhead has been disrupted and, with it, the required On Plane Loading of the Clubhead Lag. Without substantial re-alignment at the Top, a true Three-Dimensional Impact with its maximum compression has become impossible.

Instead, integrate the Magic of the Right Forearm into your Stroke by practicing the Bending and Straightening of the Right Elbow. To do this, use the Continuous Motion procedure of 12-5-1 (with Zero Pivot) and 12-5-2 (with Minimal Pivot). Also, per 7-3, practice the Right Forearm Takeaway from Fix (with Zero or Minimal Pivot) making sure to preserve the all-important alignments of the Flying Wedges Assembly (6-B-3-0-1).
 
Holeinone - I'm sure this is what I need as well. Could you please explain this without TGM terminology as I am TGM ignorant.
 
quote:Originally posted by Ripper

Holeinone - I'm sure this is what I need as well. Could you please explain this without TGM terminology as I am TGM ignorant.

Be sure the set the right forearm in plane with the shaft at set up. My set up improved with higher hands which set the right forearm perfectly. Make sure the right wrist bends back level. This is a strong "strut." I right wrist that bends c0cked is a weak strut that opens the clubface. Okay no TGM terms... after you set up with that on plane right forearm, make a lawn mower cord pull on your left arm, UP to the right shoulder. I find it helps to clear the right hip, kinda like sitting on the back pocket. As Homer said, this keeps the swing closer to a circle then a shoulder turn take AWAY.
 

rwh

New
quote:Originally posted by Ripper

Holeinone - I'm sure this is what I need as well. Could you please explain this without TGM terminology as I am TGM ignorant.

Ripper,

I will try to answer your question. But, first, let me encourage you to educate yourself about TGM. Read all of the posts by Brian & holeinone on this forum and by Yoda and Chuck Evans on the Chuck Evans' Forum and, also, The Golfing Machine Forum; there are other knowledgable posters, as well,and you will learn who they are. I have had lessons from Brian, Chuck Evans and Yoda and, in my opinion, their knowledge and teaching abilities far surpass anyone I know about.

(1) The Magic of the Right Forearm includes the fact that you can always keep the club on plane when it is below your waist by having your right forearm always pointing at the plane lane (which extends infinately away from the ball in both directions). In my opinion, it is easier to concentrate on the right forearm than any other body part.

(2) Begin practicing with a chipping motion -- just a couple of feet back and through. Stay still; weight on the front leg. Move the club only with the action of the right forearm -- think of keeping your upper right arm still and vertical. You will only be using your right arm fron the elbow joint down. Maintaining the Flying Wedges means keeping your impact alignments all the way through -- from set up to the follow through (which is only a couple of feet past the ball). The impact alignments are: flat left wrist, bent right wrist. You don'f have to strain like you're constipated to maintain the correct alignment. In fact, you can keep your wrists rather soft, as long as you just allow them to stay in their alignments and let the right forearm do the work. Note: I understand that the mucscles that move the right forearm up and down are in the upper part of the arm. However, that doesn't mean that you have to think about using those muscles. Just think about using your right forearm and you'll be fine.

(3) Once you have that down, move to a slightly longer swing -- but no more than waist high to waist high. Same basic idea as above. Don't try to add any pivot or other "muscle". Just let your body move with the club if it wants to. You just keep using only the right forearm and don't try to "add" any force with your wrists (i.e., maintain your Flying Wedge Alignments as above. Stay with the image that your upper right arm is staying vertical. Don't strain. Relax. You will be amazed at how far and accurately you can hit a pitching wedge with this motion.

(4) The two motions I described above are more "Hiting" procedures, but the Magic of the Right Forearm applies to both Hitting and Swinging. It is beyond the scope of this response to get into Swinging.

(5) I think a major problem in learning this motion is the incorrect idea that you have to be stiff and rigid to "maintain your angles". This, in my opinion, simply isn't true. You can be nice and relaxed and just let that right forearm go up and down. If you aren't actively trying to use your wrists, they will stay aligned.

(6) Does this work? Yesterday, I had one chip in from 30', lipped out from 20 yards and hit it to 3' from 100 yards. All three using only the the two basic (magical) right forearm motions described above.

(7) I admit it is hard to understand just trying to read the TGM Book. I couldn't do it right until taking lessons from the certified instructors I mentioned above. They are "Doctors" of instruction for a reason. If at all possible, go see one of them or another TGM authorized instructor in your area. It will be the best $$ you've spent on golf.
 
Your explanation and 6B1D's are very good.
It seems for this proceedure to work, one must set up with the rt forearm in the same plane as the shaft at address. 6B1D said he required higher hands. I would as well.
Question--why do I see virtually zero Tour Pros set up like this?
 
MG and holenone, re: "your brilliant response" you can read my rebuttal in the BC swing analysis thread. My posts are often being deleted, so no telling how long it will be there.

More to the point, MG, do you care to defend your "brilliant" assertion: "the geometry would still be the same whether he used a shoulder turn takeaway or a right forarm pickup."?
 

rwh

New
quote:Originally posted by glfnaz

Your explanation and 6B1D's are very good.
It seems for this proceedure to work, one must set up with the rt forearm in the same plane as the shaft at address. 6B1D said he required higher hands. I would as well.
Question--why do I see virtually zero Tour Pros set up like this?

You don't have to point the at the plane line at address, although I happen to think it's a little easier. True, most tour pros have their right forearm more vertical at address, but they have their right forearm pointing at the line in the downswing from waist high to impact.

Why is this so? I don't know. One could guess they've been taught that way. A lot of players with "vertical forearm" address positions get the right forearm "on plane" early in the take away -- for example, Hale Irwin, Davis Love, Lee Trevino, Nick Price. But, as I said, the down swing is the most important place to be on plane -- as all the tour pros have learned to do.
 
Are you suggesting the rt. arm be straightened and held way out like the left arm? If so, what is the benefit? It's uncomfortable and does not imitate impact. It would also not be in a conducive position for a correct right arm takeaway.
 

DDL

New
The results with a pickup backstroke with driver are much more consistent. At the range this morning, 9 out of 10 balls hit crisply. A first. After some iron work, went back to driver, hit some clunkers because I was 'pawing' back. Practiced the pickup without club a few times,hit a nice crisp one to end my morning. The pickup actually works better with the long irons than short irons. Go figure.

The 'abnormal' feeling backstroke using the right forearm pickup results in twisting, rotating and turning without sliding to the right.The shoulder turn isn't as great, and I don't feel the tension and coil I used to. Possibly my upper body sliding to the right, albeit very slight, was an illusion of a greater shoulder turn.I was trying to create more width with longer irons and woods when I didn't have to. The length of the club and the position of the ball further from me and more forward automatically does that.

Will take about 10,000 more swings at the range to ingrain this new feeling, until it doesn't feel abnormal.

Thanks Brian, HN1 et al.
 

rwh

New
quote:Originally posted by David Alford

Are you suggesting the rt. arm be straightened and held way out like the left arm? If so, what is the benefit? It's uncomfortable and does not imitate impact. It would also not be in a conducive position for a correct right arm takeaway.

No, David, I'm not suggesting that. The left arm is never on plane. Only the right forearm.
 

rwh

New
quote:Originally posted by David Alford

Why can't the left arm be on plane?

It could be on plane for any shot where the grip is taken in the cup of the left hand, as in putting. But, the way most people hit full shots, the grip is taken with the heel pad of the left hand on the top of the grip and the resultant angle between the club and the left arm is too great for the left arm to be on plane.
 
RWH - Thanks for your excellent and clear response. I have read a great deal on all the forums, but I don't want to get bogged down thinking about numbers, letters or confusing terminology especially when I'm trying to make a backstroke. Simple thoughts are all I can deal with!
 

Mathew

Banned
So with zero pivot - it should look something like this ?????

RightForearmTakeawaycopy.jpg


Mind the bad cut out onto white background - I don't want ragman seeing where I live or any part of my life...

If I have got the right concept... the next question I should ask is when does the pivot become active ?
 
Mathew,
If you have a true hand controlled pivot, the pivot will become active when it needs to. As you move back, up, and in on plane, the body will naturally respond. If you drop a pencil off of your desk, you think about moving your hand down to the pencil to pick it up. Your body turns, your shoulders dip down, etc. to accomodate your hand getting to the pencil. Your body will want to accomodate your hands in the backstroke and downstroke. If it doesn't, you need to train it until it does.
 
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