Right forefinger still separated?
- Thread starter jdish
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Dear jdish,
Many on this site will comment on this finger as it relates to The Golf Machine, but I am attracted to your approach regarding "my mind,monitoring ..".
I am a great fan of Tim Gallwey and his book, "The Inner Game of Golf", and especially the chapter on "Awareness Instructions". I have been applying the methods described in 'Awareness' with great success, and with the 'victims' of my research. So your comment about 'monitoring' with you mind to me is exactly what he suggests golfers do for the purpose of improving that particular area thru 'awareness' or in your case by 'monitoring'. The improvement process, in my interpretation of his book, is kind of a natural 'regression' of the area, to a 'body optimized' position, that is the body deciding where the best place is for your finger to be positioned.
So my request is to ask you, what have you learned by this "monitoring" with your mind??
I will finish by noting that I believe from the research I have been doing, that that finger can be more of an 'error generator' than a 'swing enhancer', and I will be pleased to comment on your response.
Appreciatively,
art
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
What do you mean..."is it still acceptable?". You shouldn't need someone else to let you know if something works for you whether or not it is still acceptable. If it works for you, it's more than acceptable. It's how many, not how.
I posted about my latest epiphany (trigger finger) in another thread and got zero responses. I know nothing about TGM, but stumbled on using my right index finger in a different way and the results are stunning.
I never separated my trigger finger or felt the grip on the meaty part between the two knuckles before. Tried it on the range before my round last week and the ball striking was fantastic.
I don't know the explanation as to why, but the most improvement was with my fairway woods. They flew higher and straighter than ever before.
The only difference seems to be my right hand grip is now more in the fingers with the index finger in a more pronounced trigger position with the meaty part aligned with the shaft. I feel that part of the finger on the grip throughout the swing and the only thing I can come up with is it's easier to know where the face of the club is.
Have no idea what the scientific answer is as to why I'm hitting it better. All I know is I am. Doing some research and some believe this "trigger finger" to be important and from my experience it certainly is for me. I'm hoping this epiphany is the real deal and not fleeting like so many others.
I'd like to hear what may be going on as to why the position of the right index finger seems to play such an important role in the swing.
In my case it's a swing enhancer for sure. I've played twice since and the results were the same. I'm perplexed as to how a small seemingly simple change has such dramatic results.
I never separated my trigger finger or felt the grip on the meaty part between the two knuckles before. Tried it on the range before my round last week and the ball striking was fantastic.
I don't know the explanation as to why, but the most improvement was with my fairway woods. They flew higher and straighter than ever before.
The only difference seems to be my right hand grip is now more in the fingers with the index finger in a more pronounced trigger position with the meaty part aligned with the shaft. I feel that part of the finger on the grip throughout the swing and the only thing I can come up with is it's easier to know where the face of the club is.
Have no idea what the scientific answer is as to why I'm hitting it better. All I know is I am. Doing some research and some believe this "trigger finger" to be important and from my experience it certainly is for me. I'm hoping this epiphany is the real deal and not fleeting like so many others.
I'd like to hear what may be going on as to why the position of the right index finger seems to play such an important role in the swing.
In my case it's a swing enhancer for sure. I've played twice since and the results were the same. I'm perplexed as to how a small seemingly simple change has such dramatic results.
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Art,
I'm not really sure what I've learned through monitoring. Honestly, I think I liked the idea more than the result. Connecting a spot on my hand to the clubface rationally made sense to me and gave me something consistent to focus on during the swing. With that said, my straight up Ben Doyle pattern swing resulted in the best golf of my life, but also duck hooks and a shanks. I think I've achieved similar clubface control through a focus on temp.
Kevin, your point is not lost on me and I've heard you make it before to others on the forum. At the same time I respect and am seeking your expertise. I maybe get out to practice once a week and play less. In that short amount of time I think I'll do better working towards orthodox or what the Manzella instructors have found works best. I don't care are about "owning my swing" or digging it out f the dirt. I just want to play as well as I can.
One thing I seem to feel when I extend my index finger is that it restricts my wrist set slightly. This isn't necessarily true, but I seem to feel it. Now, that im releasing and not hitting the box force across the shaft I'm just asking if that extended finger is still part of your grip.
Thanks
I'm not really sure what I've learned through monitoring. Honestly, I think I liked the idea more than the result. Connecting a spot on my hand to the clubface rationally made sense to me and gave me something consistent to focus on during the swing. With that said, my straight up Ben Doyle pattern swing resulted in the best golf of my life, but also duck hooks and a shanks. I think I've achieved similar clubface control through a focus on temp.
Kevin, your point is not lost on me and I've heard you make it before to others on the forum. At the same time I respect and am seeking your expertise. I maybe get out to practice once a week and play less. In that short amount of time I think I'll do better working towards orthodox or what the Manzella instructors have found works best. I don't care are about "owning my swing" or digging it out f the dirt. I just want to play as well as I can.
One thing I seem to feel when I extend my index finger is that it restricts my wrist set slightly. This isn't necessarily true, but I seem to feel it. Now, that im releasing and not hitting the box force across the shaft I'm just asking if that extended finger is still part of your grip.
Thanks
Matt 4-L
New
Great post Kevin
I don't undersrtand this mindset at all. That's a dichotomous statement if I've ever seen one. So you would rather swing in a manner that the Manzella staff approves even if that isn't necessarily a good fit for you. From what I've read Manzella isn't a method teacher, so basically it's whatever works for that individual golfer. Just fix'em is his mantra.
So if something is working for you, but the Manzella staff doesn't have that high on their list, you'd rather swing according to a theory that doesn't fit you. Owning your own individual swing to play your best golf is the goal, not swinging to an accepted scientific theory that somehow validates what your doing even if it doesn't work for your swing. Crazy.
Really not trying to be controversial or create a debate. Just wanted to know what the good players are doing with their right finger.
Responding to the other posts: I have searched for my swing and tried to find what works best for me over the last year. I feel like I have run around in circles and over tinkered. Every time I went to the range trying something new and experimenting. It is probably a personal thing, but I found I played best when I had a really specific set pattern that I was trying to emulate. I think it helped me organize my practice. Also I think I'm more mechanical than feel.
Keefer, I found your post a little unnecessarily insulting. But I guess that comes with the territory on an Internet forum. However, I get what you're saying, and agree in theory. But like I said above, my golf game seems to respond best when I work towards something specific.
Responding to the other posts: I have searched for my swing and tried to find what works best for me over the last year. I feel like I have run around in circles and over tinkered. Every time I went to the range trying something new and experimenting. It is probably a personal thing, but I found I played best when I had a really specific set pattern that I was trying to emulate. I think it helped me organize my practice. Also I think I'm more mechanical than feel.
Keefer, I found your post a little unnecessarily insulting. But I guess that comes with the territory on an Internet forum. However, I get what you're saying, and agree in theory. But like I said above, my golf game seems to respond best when I work towards something specific.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
If it helps do it, worked well for Daley when he actually played golf.
Sorry if you felt insulted. Just tried to point out the dichotomy in your post. As was mentioned you shouldn't need validation on what others are doing if it works for you.
If you read my initial post I've found that using this "trigger finger" is a real eye opener for me. And I wouldn't give a damn if Manzella and company thought it was the worst thing since slice bread (play on words). If it works it works. End of story.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I actually have a lot to say about this subject...but.....
magicmarker
New
but what? is this a 1.68 thing?
But what??? Don't leave us in suspense. Specifically why is the right index finger an important part of the swing for some of us? Why is it easier to square the clubface when the right index finger is in a more pronounced trigger finger position? Is there a science based answer or is it simply because the index finger is now in a position to monitor the clubface.
Thanks in advance for any insight. Being somewhat analytical I like to know why something works, but if there is no real answer I can live with that. Golf is a game where the ends justify the means. And the end result is I've discovered something that works very well for my swing.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Plenty of questions, Plenty of answers.
Answer #1: To get the right forefinger in a trigger position, the right hand hold on the club has to be on a MUCH less than 90° angle.
Which may improve your ball striking.
Question #1: When you "monitor" your right forefinger, aren'y you supposedly trying to monitor clubhead lag pressure???
Answer #1: To get the right forefinger in a trigger position, the right hand hold on the club has to be on a MUCH less than 90° angle.
Which may improve your ball striking.
Question #1: When you "monitor" your right forefinger, aren'y you supposedly trying to monitor clubhead lag pressure???
Burner
New
Why?
Matt Bryda
New
I think it is directly related to the torque about the hand path.
90* to what? I do notice my right hand is in a weaker position on the club (more in the fingers). Actually the part of the right index finger between the knuckles is parallel to the shaft. Basically if you drew a line it would be right in line with the shaft.
I don't try to lag the club at all. All I do is feel the grip against the index finger throughout the swing. I feel like the club is releasing right from the top of my swing. I also discovered that if I grip the club in the last three fingers of the left hand a little tighter, it helps keep the ball from going left (when the pulls show up).
These epiphanies will have to wait I'm afraid. My lateral epicondylitis is acting up in my right elbow and I'm forced to take a break. Is there an injury that takes longer to heal than tendonitis / tendonosis in your elbows? My experience is they are chronic as long as I play golf. The key is getting them to the manageable state where they're just sore. Pain is another story. It just takes forever for them to heal.
Dear Keefer,
Did the tendonitis come from tennis, or golf or what ? If it came from golf, there certainly are some clues as to how you employ the right hand, and arm in the downswing and follow thru that may be the cause of the injury and pain.
If so, please provide any other relevant info and I will try to research alternative/compensating right hand/arm swing characteristics that will get you back to golf sooner.
Regards,
art
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