Right forefinger still separated?

[Keefer]

Dear Keefer,

Did the tendonitis come from tennis, or golf or what ? If it came from golf, there certainly are some clues as to how you employ the right hand, and arm in the downswing and follow thru that may be the cause of the injury and pain.

If so, please provide any other relevant info and I will try to research alternative/compensating right hand/arm swing characteristics that will get you back to golf sooner.

Regards,
art

art,

It came from golf. I first developed medial epicondylitis in my right elbow ~ 8 - 9 years ago. Had three cortisone shots, physical therapy and acupuncture. The first cortisone shot worked for ~ 6 months. It took several months to get that so it was manageable (no pain , just sore). It took 8-9 years to clear up totally.

Also, have had it in my left (lateral tendonosis) elbow for ~ 8 years. That has pretty much stayed manageable (just sore). Anyway, the (lateral) right elbow is a fairly new injury. Hurt it ~ 7 months ago. Had a corisone shot in mid December that lasted ~ three months. Did the rehab thing with eccentric exercises etc., but now it's back. Hurt today on almost every shot.

With me it's a chronic thing. No more cortisone shots as there's evidence that it causes the tendon to degenerate even more. That's why I most likely have tendonosis (no inflammation). If I stopped playing golf it would probably clear up in a year or so. My wife got it lifting weights. She stopped lifting weights and it went away after a few months.

I see where Anthony Kim is going to be out ~ 4-5 months with it. Juli Inkster, Mike Weir and Tim Clark had elbow surgery recently. Many other top Touring Pro's have had surgery like Curtis Strange and Johnny Miller. I see where Yani Tseng has it (and she's young to get it). Again, with me it's an over-use repetitive type injury. If I play too much I risk having it become painful.

From my experience it is a self limiting injury that takes a long time to heal because the tendons don't get the blood supply needed to heal faster. Eccentric exercises have shown in clinical studies to help heal faster. I have the rubber bars and as soon as I can will start the rehab once again.

Not sure there's much I can do swing wise. When Touring Pro's get it that tells me it's an over-use repetitive injury that anyone can get doing anything that uses the hands and arms in a repetitive (over-use) manner..

 

[drewyallop]

There are four injury prevention forearm exercises in "Golf Anatomy" that I do three times a week. No more joint problems in the elbow and wrists.

Drew

 

[Dariusz J.]

Human anatomy I guess?

Yes. Forefingers are not in line with the other three fingers because of creating a better possibility of cooperating with thumbs. That's why when gripping a golf club both forefingers usually separate from the rest of fingers -- the weaker the grip is the bigger is the separation. Thus, no separation could be possible with a really strong grip.

Cheers

 

[Bigwill]

Yes. Forefingers are not in line with the other three fingers because of creating a better possibility of cooperating with thumbs. That's why when gripping a golf club both forefingers usually separate from the rest of fingers -- the weaker the grip is the bigger is the separation. Thus, no separation could be possible with a really strong grip.

Cheers

I've seen strong grips with significant separation of the index fingers from the rest (I even used one myself). Why do you think it's impossible? What could explain the viability if a strong grip/separate forefinger combo for those that use it?

 

[Dariusz J.]

I've seen strong grips with significant separation of the index fingers from the rest (I even used one myself). Why do you think it's impossible? What could explain the viability if a strong grip/separate forefinger combo for those that use it?

I did not say it is not possible to separate the index finger with a strong grip intentionally. I said that the weaker the grip is the bigger the gap between the index finger and the rest of fingers becomes automatically.
Make the following experiment -- with RH only -- grip the club with a very strong position and all four fingers together (no separation); then move your hands left making the grip weaker and observe how it becomes impossible to prevent the index finger from separating.
Therefore, weaker RH grip is much better than a too strong one because one does not to care about the trigger finger in a right position.

Cheers

 

[BIGBALL]

art,

It came from golf. I first developed medial epicondylitis in my right elbow ~ 8 - 9 years ago. Had three cortisone shots, physical therapy and acupuncture. The first cortisone shot worked for ~ 6 months. It took several months to get that so it was manageable (no pain , just sore). It took 8-9 years to clear up totally.

Also, have had it in my left (lateral tendonosis) elbow for ~ 8 years. That has pretty much stayed manageable (just sore). Anyway, the (lateral) right elbow is a fairly new injury. Hurt it ~ 7 months ago. Had a corisone shot in mid December that lasted ~ three months. Did the rehab thing with eccentric exercises etc., but now it's back. Hurt today on almost every shot.

With me it's a chronic thing. No more cortisone shots as there's evidence that it causes the tendon to degenerate even more. That's why I most likely have tendonosis (no inflammation). If I stopped playing golf it would probably clear up in a year or so. My wife got it lifting weights. She stopped lifting weights and it went away after a few months.

I see where Anthony Kim is going to be out ~ 4-5 months with it and Juli Inster had surgery. Mike Weir had surgery also. Many top Touring Pro's have had surgery like Curtis Strange and Johnny Miller. I see where Yani Tseng has it (and she's young to get it). Again, with me it's an over-use repetitive type injury. If I play too much I risk having it become painful.

From my experience it is a self limiting injury that takes a long time to heal because the tendons don't get the blood supply needed to heal faster. Eccentric exercises have shown in clinical studies to help heal faster. I have the rubber bars and as soon as I can will start the rehab once again.

Not sure there's much I can do swing wise. When Touring Pro's get it that tells me it's an over-use repetitive injury that anyone can get doing anything that uses the hands and arms in a repetitive (over-use) manner..

Keefer

Find a local A.R.T practitioner. ( Active Release Technique ) I had bouts with this in the past. That therapy helped a ton. It also basically disappeared when I went to graphite shafts. I recently bought new irons with steel shafts, and for the first time in years I can feel it creeping in again. Seems like more than a coincidence...

 

[drewyallop]

I think I'm trying to monitor low point and clubface, not lag.

Assuming that the golfer cannot make any changes to the various torques after the shaft has reached last parallel, is any monitoring possible? By the time you have registered a right forefinger sensation in the old melon the ball is gone.

 

[Keefer]

Keefer

Find a local A.R.T practitioner. ( Active Release Technique ) I had bouts with this in the past. That therapy helped a ton. It also basically disappeared when I went to graphite shafts. I recently bought new irons with steel shafts, and for the first time in years I can feel it creeping in again. Seems like more than a coincidence...

Like I mentioned mine is chronic (as long as I play golf) and the key for me is to get it to the point where it's manageable (just sore to the touch and no pain when I swing). I have not tried ART, but did try all sorts of physical therapy, trigger point therapy etc. over the years with terrible results. The Physical Therapist told me I'd be better off breaking my elbow that having epicondylitis as far as healing time went.

I can live with this in everyday life no problem. I have zero static pain and minimum pain when using the right arm in daily life. Swinging a golf club is a different story. You can't swing while anticipating pain. I do use graphite shafts even in my wedges.

From what was explained to me is tendons (connects muscle to bone) are like ropes. They have little elasticity and when over-used will fray like a rope does. These small tears eventually cause the tendon to degenerate and it just takes forever to heal.

Golf is a brutal sport injury wise. For a non-contact sport you can have all sorts of injuries (neck, back, shoulder, elbow, wrist, hand, knees etc, etc.).

 

[Bigwill]

I did not say it is not possible to separate the index finger with a strong grip intentionally. I said that the weaker the grip is the bigger the gap between the index finger and the rest of fingers becomes automatically.
Make the following experiment -- with RH only -- grip the club with a very strong position and all four fingers together (no separation); then move your hands left making the grip weaker and observe how it becomes impossible to prevent the index finger from separating.
Therefore, weaker RH grip is much better than a too strong one because one does not to care about the trigger finger in a right position.

Cheers

Ok, must be another example of me being golfing abnormal guy. I can rotate the hand effortlessly without separating the fingers. Thanks anyway. Carry on

 

[johnnymarlboro]

Ok, must be another example of me being golfing abnormal guy. I can rotate the hand effortlessly without separating the fingers. Thanks anyway. Carry on

Me too.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Ok, must be another example of me being golfing abnormal guy. I can rotate the hand effortlessly without separating the fingers. Thanks anyway. Carry on

Interesting. Are you able to have all four fingers together when performing a weak RH grip on top of the shaft ? The only one possibility if I try real hard is to have a small gap but with a very visible difference in height of finger's middle joints between index finger and the rest of fingers. Most probably you're doing the experiment wrongly, i.e. turning your palm around the grip not paying attention to the clubface. It's not about turning but weakening the golf grip.

And what was the other example of your abnormality ? Just curious.

Cheers

 

[Bigwill]

Interesting. Are you able to have all four fingers together when performing a weak RH grip on top of the shaft ? The only one possibility if I try real hard is to have a small gap but with a very visible difference in height of finger's middle joints between index finger and the rest of fingers. Most probably you're doing the experiment wrongly, i.e. turning your palm around the grip not paying attention to the clubface. It's not about turning but weakening the golf grip.

And what was the other example of your abnormality ? Just curious.

Cheers

My hands are nearly 11" from pinky to thumb and almost 9" from wrist to finger tip, and I have a standard grip on my irons, so I'm holding the club solely in the fingers of my right hand. Maybe that has something to do with it?

As far as the abnormal comment goes, it's nothing physical, just a personal joke. Whenever I find something that works, it's almost always different than what would be considered conventional. I suspect that if I were good enough to make it on tour, I'd be one of those guys with the idiosyncratic swings, rather than someone with a more "conventional" motion. I'm also a guy with tour speed who hasn't sniffed breaking 90 yet. There's more, but not worth going into. Let's just say that whatever is in the "normal range" for golf, it doesn't seem to apply to me, lol...

 

[Bigwill]

More related to the thread topic, is there a general difference in the ability to sense the clubhead between fingers together vs fingers separated? I see a lot of pros/good players with either. Is it just a matter of personal preference?

 

[Keefer]

Bubba Watson is a good example of a player with a strong grip using a separated trigger finger.

Google Image Result for http://c820305.r5.cf3.rackcdn.com/processed/133408920.jpg/c/520x330.jpg

 

[dlam]

i like it the separation.
Reminds me that I can snap hook as long as i keep my elbow tuck in as well.