Right Hand coming loose at top of BS

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flyers66

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1st, I use a overlapping grip. I have small powerful thicker hands/fingers (cadet med glove)
My right hand (pinky, ring and middle fingers) come off the club at the top of my Back Swing especially if I let the elbow stick out to 90deg or so and when I lift my arms. The only way I can seem to keep my rt hand from doing so is to swing to what seems to me a very abbreviated BS with the right elbow staying very close to the body with Zero separation(this doesn't allow for much lift in the swing with the arms...just a very one plane around move) I know this affects my swing. I esp feel the right hand wanting to re-grab and strong arm the club on the way down. Any thoughts? Is this a grip problem(I have had good instructors look at my grip and approve-and I do the Manzella Neutral grip/club face procedure) or is this a result of an improper plane
thnks
Flyers66
 
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thefuture37

Banned
its a grip problem. try interlocking. but really just stop letting loose with the right hand. your grip can be perfect at address but it doesn't matter if you let go of it during the backswing.
 
cmartingolf

cmartingolf

New
flyers66 said:
My right hand (pinky, ring and middle fingers) come off the club at the top of my Back Swing especially if I let the elbow stick out to 90deg or so and when I lift my arms.
Click to expand...

Flyers, you need to understand "extensor action." You are bending your right arm with your right arm. I know that sounds goofy, but your right arm shouldn't bend on it's own. It should only bend as a result of being forced too. The right arm should feel as though it stays straight. You don't need to keep your elbow tight to your body either.

I'll bet you bend your left elbow in your backswing too?? Let me know?
 
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flyers66

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cmartingolf said:
Flyers, you need to understand "extensor action." You are bending your right arm with your right arm. I know that sounds goofy, but your right arm shouldn't bend on it's own. It should only bend as a result of being forced too. The right arm should feel as though it stays straight. You don't need to keep your elbow tight to your body either.

I'll bet you bend your left elbow in your backswing too?? Let me know?
Click to expand...

"extensor action" new concept to me...So should the "extension" of the left arm bend the right arm at some pt in the BS? And yes I do bend my left arm at the elbow some. It seems to me that if I extend it without bending it, I don't get much wrist cock at the top...is that ok?(unless I use a long left thumb-but I can't seem to strike the ball well with a long thumb)
thnks
flyers66
 
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holeout

New
flyers66 said:
"extensor action" new concept to me...So should the "extension" of the left arm bend the right arm at some pt in the BS? And yes I do bend my left arm at the elbow some. It seems to me that if I extend it without bending it, I don't get much wrist cock at the top...is that ok?(unless I use a long left thumb-but I can't seem to strike the ball well with a long thumb)
thnks
flyers66
Click to expand...

Extensor action is the right arm "pushing" the left arm straight. Brian has said that it's great for some (Chuck seems to think so for you) and bad for others. Give it a try.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Whoa Nellie!

There is VERY simple solution to this problem.

I'll get to it in a sec....first:

You do not want to "let go" of your pinky, ring and middle fingers at the top of the swing.

You don't want the club to change position on your right hand at the top either—a move recommended by some. Really.

You do not need "extensor action" at the top of the swing, or anytime in the swing for that matter.

See Harry Vardon or Geoff Ogilvy.

All you need to do is make a backswing the way you do now—pinky, ring and middle finger coming off and all—and take your right hand off and shake your arm for a second, or count to three, or whatever, and put it back on so that it fits.

That means, with the club and your left arm STILL IN THE SAME PLACE, put the right hand on the way in needs to be to maintain touching.

Got it?
 
cmartingolf

cmartingolf

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IMO,

In a recent thread we talked about "deadly" moves in the golf swing. I think letting go at the top with the right hand ranks up there.

It's pretty hard to let go and regrip on the way down w/out destroying leverage. I'm sure there are some good strikers out there (Bobby Jones had an odd regrip move with his left hand, so did Trevino), but I don't know of any that regrip with the right and have decent consistency.

Flyer, I have an associate at my club who is in sales. He's played golf all of his life and looks like a tour player when he addresses the ball. He does exactly what you do. He is also a range rat and hits a lot of balls. After a warm up session he hits the ball okay and generally in the direction he is aiming. On the course he can't play dead.

In short: it's painful to try and time that regrip.

Although I've never given him a formal lesson, in discussion I've pointed out his deadly flaw and explained extensor action. Like Holeout mentioned, it is the right arm pushing the left arm straight. More specifically, the lifeline of the right hand pushing on the thumb knuckle of the left hand.

My old coach, a TGM AI, explained a feel to me that might help you. I still use this: Your hands should not swing higher than your right ear on the backswing AND they should be as far away from your right ear as possible (width).

Now before a bunch of you jump on that, it is a FEEL... and it works pretty well.

I've explained this to my associate and he feels like his swing is "too short" when he does this and it "robs him of power". Well, with his "let go" action this afternoon, he lost about 5 balls in nine holes and I fleeced him. Now I just keep my mouth shut.

I'm not saying my hands don't travel higher than my ear on the backswing, they do. But, I'm not trying to "put them" anywhere higher based on some "model" swing. Backswing momentum might take them higher but in my Coconut, that's as high as I feel they go... AND I don't feel like my right arm bends at all (but it clearly does, about 90 degrees).

One last thing, then I'll shut up. Promise. You may have a flexibility issue. Lie on your back with your elbows opposite your shoulders. You should be able to lay your forearms flat on the ground then lift your elbows off the ground. If you can't, there in lies part of the problem.
 
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flyers66

New
Brian Manzella said:
There is VERY simple solution to this problem.

I'll get to it in a sec....first:

You do not want to "let go" of your pinky, ring and middle fingers at the top of the swing.

You don't want the club to change position on your right hand at the top either—a move recommended by some. Really.

You do not need "extensor action" at the top of the swing, or anytime in the swing for that matter.

See Harry Vardon or Geoff Ogilvy.

All you need to do is make a backswing the way you do now—pinky, ring and middle finger coming off and all—and take your right hand off and shake your arm for a second, or count to three, or whatever, and put it back on so that it fits.

That means, with the club and your left arm STILL IN THE SAME PLACE, put the right hand on the way in needs to be to maintain touching.

Got it?
Click to expand...

I think I got it Brian. How does this translate to when I swing for real? Am I just trying to get the feeling of where the right hand should be by the exercise then try to duplicate it on my real swing?
 
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holeout

New
flyers66 said:
I think I got it Brian. How does this translate to when I swing for real? Am I just trying to get the feeling of where the right hand should be by the exercise then try to duplicate it on my real swing?
Click to expand...

I think he's saying that you need to find out how you can grip the club so that you can hold onto it in your backswing. You do what he said (stop at the top, then re-grip), then grip the club that way from the beginning. That way when you get to the top of your backswing you don't have to let go.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
holeout said:
I think he's saying that you need to find out how you can grip the club so that you can hold onto it in your backswing. You do what he said (stop at the top, then re-grip), then grip the club that way from the beginning. That way when you get to the top of your backswing you don't have to let go.
Click to expand...

That's it!
 
P

puttmad

New
flyers,
just a thought...you say you have small hands (short fingers?...)....does the tip of your right hand ring finger touch your left thumb when you take your grip?.....if it doesn't, then maybe your grips are too fat....
 
tongzilla

tongzilla

New
Brian Manzella said:
There is VERY simple solution to this problem.

I'll get to it in a sec....first:

You do not want to "let go" of your pinky, ring and middle fingers at the top of the swing.

You don't want the club to change position on your right hand at the top either—a move recommended by some. Really.

You do not need "extensor action" at the top of the swing, or anytime in the swing for that matter.

See Harry Vardon or Geoff Ogilvy.

All you need to do is make a backswing the way you do now—pinky, ring and middle finger coming off and all—and take your right hand off and shake your arm for a second, or count to three, or whatever, and put it back on so that it fits.

That means, with the club and your left arm STILL IN THE SAME PLACE, put the right hand on the way in needs to be to maintain touching.

Got it?
Click to expand...

Brian, when I do this my right hand looks pretty weak when I go back to address. Is this normal?
 
self-mastery

self-mastery

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I haven't read this thread...

The golf grip is the dumbest thing... It is completely unnatural and useless. You would never use the vardon or interlock grip in 'real' life.

My grip(s)

Driver: Baseball bat type grip with the grip in my fingers.

Short Irons (meh nothing longer than a 7 in my bag): My left thumb is long and ontop of the grip, and my right hand is in baseball grip attitude.

What I do is intuitive, and feels great.

I don't care how long golfers have been using the Vardon or the Interlock, it is inferior and a built in handicap to playing good golf.

I've built my game around my retarded schedule: Play golf ever 3-4 weeks or so, hit it long to save me from having to practice w/ my irons, pitch/chip/putt like an angry Tiger Woods, shoot my same ole 76-78, and spend 90% of my practice mastering my wedges.

Make this game easy, and don't waste your time on BS that will not help you hit the ball better.

I just gave you all a $10k golf lesson... Enjoy your new found knowledge :) :) :)
 
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Guitar Hero

Guitar Hero

New member
The golf grip is the dumbest thing... It is completely unnatural and useless. You would never use the vardon or interlock grip in 'real' life.

I Agree!!

Use what is natural and you will have control of you golf swing. The 8 finger 2 thumb grip (right hand golfer) has the left thumb on the top right side of the grip and the right thumb on the left top side of the grip.

The grip is also held in the 8 fingers and the club head is felt with the thumbs and index fingers. The vardon or interlock grip is a big problem with new golfers as it is not natural. The golf has to adept to it for it to work and it is a problem most of the time.

There is also a separation of the heal pad of the right hand off the left thumb during all good golf swings. It might be a small amount but it is present.

Forget the PGA, TGM and most golf instruction that promote the vardon and interlocking grip. Work on your swing outside their box and you will get better.
 
B

Bigwill

New
I haven't read this thread...

The golf grip is the dumbest thing... It is completely unnatural and useless. You would never use the vardon or interlock grip in 'real' life.

My grip(s)

Driver: Baseball bat type grip with the grip in my fingers.

Short Irons (meh nothing longer than a 7 in my bag): My left thumb is long and ontop of the grip, and my right hand is in baseball grip attitude.

What I do is intuitive, and feels great.

I don't care how long golfers have been using the Vardon or the Interlock, it is inferior and a built in handicap to playing good golf.

I've built my game around my retarded schedule: Play golf ever 3-4 weeks or so, hit it long to save me from having to practice w/ my irons, pitch/chip/putt like an angry Tiger Woods, shoot my same ole 76-78, and spend 90% of my practice mastering my wedges.

Make this game easy, and don't waste your time on BS that will not help you hit the ball better.





I've been experimenting with different grips to try to get comfortable. I think that I haven't settled on 10 finger because of conventional wisdom (I have huge hands; I could palm a basketball in junior high). I do know that whatever grip I use, it needs to be such that my right hand is a little more involved than the Vardon grip seems to allow. I'll probably settle on either the interlock or the ...gasp... 10 finger grip because of that.

What does the 10 finger grip do for you that the others don't? In other words, what does it help correct, in terms of ball flight, etc?
 
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self-mastery

self-mastery

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Bigwill said:


What does the 10 finger grip do for you that the others don't? In other words, what does it help correct, in terms of ball flight, etc?
Click to expand...


The 10 finger grip allows me to use my right arm/ hand more, and allows me to push my right hand directly into my left hand. It also doesn't feel as flimsy as the two standard methods of gripping a golf club.


Why not try larger grips? I plan on regripping with the same large untapered grips that the Single Axis guys use.
 
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