Rules talk
- Thread starter mgranato
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Bifurcation is tough with regard to rules, much easier with equipment, but I agree here. Tour pros NEVER lose balls and it slows play down. Problem here s at what level? Certainly the club level what about future proS as in US am or NCAA? Gets tricky
KGlennCole
New
If someone is playing in any competition (especially for $$).. None. This includes weekend games at the Club. The Rules level the playing field. [I will understand certain rules waivers for the weekend games - if and only if stipulated up-front and cleary known and agreed to by all (e.g. a 'local rule').]
I played in a tournament this past weekend. Invoking the course's local rule and to 'speed up play', the Tour Director stated we would use drop areas on certain holes. We rarely ever use drop areas. On 200 yd Par 3 #17, the junk starts about 30 yds in front on the tee and goes for ~100 yds. The drop area is on the other side. My fellow competitor rolls it into the junk. Voila! To the other side for a chip. (Don't worry. I birdied it. Worth 2 skins.. natural birdie and net 1 'cuz I got a stroke!)
If someone wants to look the other way or make things up in casual play, go ahead. They better not complain when they have to play it down and by the rules in competition.
I played in a tournament this past weekend. Invoking the course's local rule and to 'speed up play', the Tour Director stated we would use drop areas on certain holes. We rarely ever use drop areas. On 200 yd Par 3 #17, the junk starts about 30 yds in front on the tee and goes for ~100 yds. The drop area is on the other side. My fellow competitor rolls it into the junk. Voila! To the other side for a chip. (Don't worry. I birdied it. Worth 2 skins.. natural birdie and net 1 'cuz I got a stroke!)
If someone wants to look the other way or make things up in casual play, go ahead. They better not complain when they have to play it down and by the rules in competition.
KGlennCole
New
I agree. At what point is a rule unfair to anyone other than a Pro?
Lost ball? Hit a provisional. Use another club off the tee other than a Driver.
Here's one - Let's just stipulate that having to putt everything out slows play and that only Pro's have to putt out. Anything inside the leather is good. OK? Same thing. [Not directed at you DCgolf, by the way.]
Tell ya what I would do though. I'd invoke rule 35 more often. Common Sense. First thing we learn in rules class is to leave common sense in the locker before officiating. Our game is played on the largest playing field in all kinds of weather etc.and still we try to govern it like it was a tennis court. Black and white is tennis, gray is golf. Let the officials have more judgement call like in other sports. Every time a Carl Petterson incident happens we look silly. There's the letter of the law and the spirit of it and I, for one, am for allowing the officials to rule on some of these things. And I'm an old purist!
mgranato
New
Not sure it would be tricky. In the other prominent sports (baseball, basketball, football) ams/NCAA play by different rules than the pro versions. Those sports recognize the "difference" in the athlete with regard to both rules and equipment, I'd like to see golf do the same.
mgranato
New
So no changes at all from you? Not even that Dukies get a 2 shot head start?
Lindsey Newman
New
I do not believe anything should differ between professional and amateur in tournament play. I do think some rules need to be addressed.
Lindsey Newman
New
I don't think what happens during the actual stroke in a hazard should penalize the player, but I do agree with not being allowed to ground the club.
I think non manicured areas should be played as hazards. For instance, irrigated heather/fescue area. Hitting a ball 10 yards off the fairway, inside the course boundary should not be stroke and distance.
I think non manicured areas should be played as hazards. For instance, irrigated heather/fescue area. Hitting a ball 10 yards off the fairway, inside the course boundary should not be stroke and distance.
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
I personally think out of bounds should be permanently removed. No stroke and distance penalties.
Since we are on the topic of rules, can someone please explain to me the way the CBS announcers discussed the penalty in Petterson Sunday?
I watched the video a dozen times, and HE CLEARLY GROUNDS HIS CLUB IN THE HAZARD!!!
All that talk about moving the loose impediment on the backswing is beside the point. Before he takes it back he fully grounds it behind the ball. That is 2 strokes. I just do not nderstand what he was thinking when he did it, and I really don't understand why no one on tv mentioned that he grounded his club. They zoomed in on the moving leaf, but beforee the club moves you can see it fully soled behind the ball completely on the ground. When I saw it live I yelled out loud, "he grounded his club!"
I watched the video a dozen times, and HE CLEARLY GROUNDS HIS CLUB IN THE HAZARD!!!
All that talk about moving the loose impediment on the backswing is beside the point. Before he takes it back he fully grounds it behind the ball. That is 2 strokes. I just do not nderstand what he was thinking when he did it, and I really don't understand why no one on tv mentioned that he grounded his club. They zoomed in on the moving leaf, but beforee the club moves you can see it fully soled behind the ball completely on the ground. When I saw it live I yelled out loud, "he grounded his club!"
Fro
Read Rule 13
USGA: Rules and Decisions
And the Decisions, particularly
13-4/4 and 13-4/8
USGA: Rules and Decisions
USGA: Rules and Decisions
The walking official said he could lightly ground the club per the main Rule 13 body.
So, the main point is - you can't ground your club in a bunker because touching the sand =touching ground. However, in a grassy area in a hazard you can lightly tough the grass, since grass is not ground.
Read Rule 13
USGA: Rules and Decisions
And the Decisions, particularly
13-4/4 and 13-4/8
USGA: Rules and Decisions
USGA: Rules and Decisions
The walking official said he could lightly ground the club per the main Rule 13 body.
So, the main point is - you can't ground your club in a bunker because touching the sand =touching ground. However, in a grassy area in a hazard you can lightly tough the grass, since grass is not ground.
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Thanks, dbl.
I guess I saw things differently:
A. The grass was not all that tall.
B. I thought that he did fully ground his club enough to compress the grass.
I understand that in very tall grass it is ok if your club touches the grass. But what I saw was grass not much higher than regular rough, and the player simpy grounded his club as usual. Indeed, I think that his moving the loose impediment was a RESULT of the fact that he grounded his club fully and then dragged it back through the grass. If he had kept his club up above the grass he would not have moved that leaf.
It seems to me that the general approach to grounding your club and improving your lie has really changed in the last 20 years. Jack never even ground his club in the rough, much less in a hazard.
I have ALWAYS said that! and that tends to be a bigger worry for us average weekend players because A) most am's aren't good at playing that shot and B) The divots in a lot of the courses we play tend to be hacker type divots, more hole than divot, etc.
He's allowed to touch the grass in a hazard before he swings as long as the club is not totally grounded. I could not see close enough to know if it was actually grounded. But moving the leaf had as much to do with the outcome of the shot as I did watching on TV. Hence my argument allowing a certain judgement leeway in officiating...I've made ruling in tournaments that were ridiculous just cause I had to.
That's lost ball city on courses I play. In those instances, I would to be able to have a chip out or an unplayable.
Lindsey Newman
New
Exactly. My course and many course now (to save on expenses) are allowing heather and natural fescue to grow unchecked. Where I play, if you hit it in the heather, you won't find your ball 90% of the time. So, taking an unplayable is out and it's back to the tee for stroke and distance. Most of the time if you miss the fairway at my course you go ahead and hit a provisional.
The other problem is most players at my course play the rules (as they should), they go look and never find the ball and come back to the tee because they did not hit the provisional. Well, there just went at least 7 minutes - 5 for looking and two to come back and hit another.
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