Ryder Cup Rainsuits

[Robbohank]

How in the world Pavin didn't "vett" the rain gear prior to going to Wales in October is stunning.

What's more amazing to me is how many US players continued to use regular leather gloves. Have these guys not heard of "rain gloves"? They're black and the wetter they get the better they grip! I didn't see too much of the coverage but what I did see had many players trying desperately to towel down their leather gloves followed by a wild shot. Looked like Poulter was using one.... maybe Watson. Why didn't every US player have a pair? I played in similar conditions early this year and had a decided advantage because I had a pair of these.

For all the hype the RC gets, we look like buffoons for not having basic functional weather gear. Do you think they removed the "Celtic Manor" logo on the rainsuits they had to purchase in the proshop?

 

[birdie_man]

No.

I'm saying he's historically played like crap over in Europe. Nothing wrong with that, just the way it is.

He's historically a mediocre Ryder Cup player (10-14-6) and he's a difficult guy to play alternate shot with because he's such a bomb-n-gouger.

Sooooo...I would keep a very careful eye on Phil and not make and not just play him in every team match just because he's the #2 ranked player in the world because frankly....that don't mean jack in the Ryder Cup. If that was the case, Tiger and Phil would've never lost as a team.

Here's the guys that statistically fit into a good partner for Phil (AS = Alternate Shot, BB = Best Ball)

Stricker (AS), Kuchar (AS), Watson (AS), Mahan (BB or AS), Furyk (BB)

This doesn't include the captain choices. But it figures in several statistical factors from this year like birdie percentage from fairway, birdie % from rough, scoring avg from 175-200 yards, scoring avg. from 200-225 yds, par-3, par-4 and par-5 scoring average, etc.

I think if I was the captain, I'd try to get ahold of the MIT statistician guys to do even more in depth analysis in what type of players statistically work well together, what type of players are good captain picks, etc.

I will say that Cink is on fire. I wasn't high on him at all, but he's proven me wrong. Although Azinger agreed with one sentiment I had...a lot of this talk about 'experience' often means that the players have 'bad experience' and aren't worth it.






3JACK

I know I know...

Butbutbut..."Tiger and Phil", as far as I can tell (and from their previous pairing a few years ago) is wayyyyy different than Tiger and just about anyone else...or Phil and just about anyone else...

I am not sure I get the stats at this point. Stats can be a tricky thing. Not saying that is bad...but it is what it is. I just mean...why pairing people based on said statistical criteria?

To cover the other's "weaknesses"?

To suit the course?

To pair in a way that will go well against how you think the other team will "pair against your pair"?

To pair "people types"? (though that is mostly stats aside)

Overall combination of all of the above, and of course MORE.

"(Gut?) Feeling."

Past experience.

What the guys say/want.

Etc.

Not saying you are wrong. Though I am skeptical of keeping Mickelson off the team...c'mon Richie!!

The WR system I am sure is not perfect either but he has prevailed within it for quite sometime as #2. He is Number Two for a reason, no? (at the very least he is experienced, I think 'liked', and I think 'a team player'- probably influencing those around him positively)

Anyhoo...interesting.

BTW I think I agree on Cink...I perceive him as a pretty "tough" dude these days, for some reason. Dunno. Just catch glimpses of it. We will see what pans out.

 

[Robert McFadden]

Rain suits

There was nothing wrong with the rain suits. That is until they made all those needle holes all over the back of the jackets. Dumb.

 

[mb6606]

There was nothing wrong with the rain suits. That is until they made all those needle holes all over the back of the jackets. Dumb.

IF they were that stupid to embroider the rain suits and not tape behind them then they deserve the result. Polyester thread wicks water and if you are wearing a wicking poly or cotton shirt you will get soaked in no time.

 

[Richie3Jack]

The stats can be used in various ways to figure out what works best.

For me, when it came to 'low score' format, I looked mostly at par-3, par-4, and par-5 scoring average and weighed them appropriately (because there are 10 par-4's, 4 par-3's, 4 par-5's. IIRC, somebody like Bubba Watson has been awful on par-3's this year. Overton has been awful on par-5's. They actually should work well together in the best score format because they are pretty strong except for those 2 respective areas, but Overton can make up for Bubba's par-3 deficiencies and Bubba can make up for Overton's par-5 deficiencies. With Phil and Dustin, I just don't see them being that statistically compatible and I feel that's probably what happened to Tiger and Phil when they paired up.

I think that the Ryder Cup captain on either side that starts using statistical compatibility to pair up players instead of pairing guys by who gets along with each other or by 'gut instinct', they'll likely dominate. Obviously, if some guys get hot, that stuff will get thrown out of the window, but I still think a statistically compatible team will be very tough to beat.






3JACK

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

2 words:

zero restriction

or

galvin green

 

[eric54]

Well they are going to need them again tomorrow. I live about 40 miles from Celtic Manor and forecast over here for tonight and tomorrow is not good. Could be up to 2 inches of rain. Dont be surprised if play is suspended again.

 

[mgranato]

Well they are going to need them again tomorrow. I live about 40 miles from Celtic Manor and forecast over here for tonight and tomorrow is not good. Could be up to 2 inches of rain. Dont be surprised if play is suspended again.

You guys have miles in Great Britain?

 

[spktho]

lavender sweater vests?

 

[birly-shirly]

You guys have miles in Great Britain?

Shh - only in the Resistance...

 

[jonnygrouville]

You guys have miles in Great Britain?

As I remember it, distances are in miles, yards on the golf course, human height in feet and inches, weight in stones and pounds, time in hours, minutes and seconds (traditionally - there is no plan to move to metric time). Oddly, if it is cold, temperature is in celsius, fahrenheit if it is warm (so rarely, but sounds a much more impressive number when it is). You have to go to the continent for kilometres, kilogrammes and monopoly money instead of proper currency.

The movies lied to me though - here in Vietnam distances are in kilometres not 'clicks'. Disappointed.

 

[mgranato]

As I remember it, distances are in miles, yards on the golf course, human height in feet and inches, weight in stones and pounds, time in hours, minutes and seconds (traditionally - there is no plan to move to metric time). Oddly, if it is cold, temperature is in celsius, fahrenheit if it is warm (so rarely, but sounds a much more impressive number when it is). You have to go to the continent for kilometres, kilogrammes and monopoly money instead of proper currency.

The movies lied to me though - here in Vietnam distances are in kilometres not 'clicks'. Disappointed.

That explains a lot...

Last time I was in the UK, I always asked how far away something was in kilomiles.

 

[dominicscaife]

The stats can be used in various ways to figure out what works best.

For me, when it came to 'low score' format, I looked mostly at par-3, par-4, and par-5 scoring average and weighed them appropriately (because there are 10 par-4's, 4 par-3's, 4 par-5's. IIRC, somebody like Bubba Watson has been awful on par-3's this year. Overton has been awful on par-5's. They actually should work well together in the best score format because they are pretty strong except for those 2 respective areas, but Overton can make up for Bubba's par-3 deficiencies and Bubba can make up for Overton's par-5 deficiencies. With Phil and Dustin, I just don't see them being that statistically compatible and I feel that's probably what happened to Tiger and Phil when they paired up.

I think that the Ryder Cup captain on either side that starts using statistical compatibility to pair up players instead of pairing guys by who gets along with each other or by 'gut instinct', they'll likely dominate. Obviously, if some guys get hot, that stuff will get thrown out of the window, but I still think a statistically compatible team will be very tough to beat.

3JACK

Well... back on topic...

EUROPE 9½-6½ USA

Great session. Westwood and Donald set the tone wonderfully.

3Jack's idea's are interesting. But I don't really see it being so clear cut.

I think you have to consider other factors.

For example the Harrington and Fisher combo worked a dream, which I believe was due to Paddy's excellent green reading ability paired with Fishers stunning long game (but weak putting generally).

Credit to 3Jack for calling Mickleson's shocking performances anyway...

Can anyone see USA coming back after this? I cannot.

Come on Europe!

 

[gmbtempe]

The US sucks right now at golf.

Dustin Johnson looked petrified putting out there. Watson also, I mean can you even have a better parter yet do nothing all week?

Furyk, won his trophy last week (he would not trade it for any other)

Mickelson and Woods continue their off year.

at least stricker turned it around. Overton has played well.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Goofy, partisan crowd, match play is the very last thing I would use to indicate if the U.S. sucks at golf. Wait till tomorrow to form an opinion. The Europeans always feels emboldened by their partners to beat Goliath and they usually wet themselves in singles and get pummeled.

Since when has the Ryder Cup been a stepping stone to dominance in golf? Peter Baker, Phillip Walton, Eamon Darcy, Paul McGinley, Sam Torrance. All Ryder cup heroes that didnt do squat in Majors or anything else.

As Duval said, its just a made for TV exhibition.

 

[gmbtempe]

Goofy, partisan crowd, match play is the very last thing I would use to indicate if the U.S. sucks at golf. Wait till tomorrow to form an opinion. The Europeans always feels emboldened by their partners to beat Goliath and they usually wet themselves in singles and get pummeled.

goliath?

Thats a mental thing, they were huge favorites and on play this euro form was way better than the us.

I mean between Woods, Fowler, Overton, Cink, Mickelson they have 1 win....thats not good play for our top players on tour.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Every member of the Euros that doesnt have a Major would trade places with Stewart Cink for his British Open in a heartbeat. In the grand scheme of things, this is a fun event to watch but you cant judge anyone on their performances in foursomes or fourball, only singles. Its an individual game 51 weeks a year. Dustin Johnson hasnt taken this much time to play a round of golf in his life. Totally out of his element. When he wins a few majors who will ever remember his Ryder Cup record? Nobody. The only thing that ever matters historically is if you made the team or not.

 

[golfbulldog]

Every member of the Euros that doesnt have a Major would trade places with Stewart Cink for his British Open in a heartbeat. In the grand scheme of things, this is a fun event to watch but you cant judge anyone on their performances in foursomes or fourball, only singles. Its an individual game 51 weeks a year. Dustin Johnson hasnt taken this much time to play a round of golf in his life. Totally out of his element. When he wins a few majors who will ever remember his Ryder Cup record? Nobody. The only thing that ever matters historically is if you made the team or not.

What the Ryder Cup teaches us is perhaps less about the absolute level of golfing talent but more about the relationships that individual sportsmen form when their success is dependent on another person not under their own control...

Ricky Fowler holed out from a bunker druing a tough match and Phil didn't get too unduly excited - quiet bump of knuckles and moved on...you can argue that it is impressive to do this because it makes the opposition look like it is routine etc...nothing special....but when you are a couple of holes down, on foreign soil witha boisterous home gallery in your face a little bit more of a release of emotion might have been better for their partnership....I was really impressed by Overton and Watson - I quite liked the Boom Baby bit...

Alot of sports fans in Europe like to see golfers caring about what their partners do...celebrating in there talents and sharing....it has brought the best out of weaker individual talents (someone mantioned a list above) - but we celebrate that rather than decry the weakness of those players for needing the help...it is the human experience we Euros enjoy from the Ryder Cup just as much as the golfing one...

I was impressed by Cink too...and he has a major and a heart...very good guy it seems.

 

[birly-shirly]

Goofy, partisan crowd, match play is the very last thing I would use to indicate if the U.S. sucks at golf. Wait till tomorrow to form an opinion. The Europeans always feels emboldened by their partners to beat Goliath and they usually wet themselves in singles and get pummeled.

Since when has the Ryder Cup been a stepping stone to dominance in golf? Peter Baker, Phillip Walton, Eamon Darcy, Paul McGinley, Sam Torrance. All Ryder cup heroes that didnt do squat in Majors or anything else.

As Duval said, its just a made for TV exhibition.

I think I sympathise a little more with the "exhibition" comments with every staging of the cup. Nothing reinforces this more than the selection of venues, at least in Europe, which seems driven almost exclusively by political and commercial considerations rather than any concern to find a great course to stage a serious competition.

That said, I think the main conclusion I've taken from the last 25 years of Ryder Cup history is that over 3 days you can hardly separate the cream of US golf from the best of Europe. If that isn't reflected in major successes, then I'm more inclined to look again at the idea of major championships (especially 3 majors being US-based) as the sole barometer of success.

It would take a lot to persuade me that Todd Hamilton or Andy North is a much better golfer than the guys mentioned above, or that Paul Lawrie was better than Colin Montgomerie.

 

[greenfree]

I agree with Kevin at the end of a golf career i'd rather have Tiger's or whoever's majors then a winning Ryder Cup record.