Secret Research Mission

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Bigwill

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softconsult said:
"IMO, the look of the swing should be changed only if it's related to a flaw that causes faulty flight/contact. There are a lot of pretty swings that don't do anything, and a lot of butt-ugly swings that produce the prettiest shots you'll ever see. To me, a good instructor/smart golfer would do well to leave it alone if it's working, rather than changing things for aesthetic purposes."

In my many decades of playing golf, I have seen way more swings (pretty or not, mostly not!) that did not produce consistently good shots. My point is that I think more instructors change a student's swing because the student is producing poor shots. Almost has to be true because there really are not that many pretty swings out there as a percentage of all golf swings.

Just my entirely subjective view.
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I agree with your point, and I know that instructors have their hands full with unproductive swings; didn't mean to imply otherwise. My point is just that if you're hitting the ball well and know where it's going, don't change the swing just to make it look better. Wulsy's post touched on something that I think about from time to time, especially since I've known good players who've gone after a swing change simply because of the way their swing looks, rather that how it performs. Yeah, pretty is nice, but performance is what counts.

I've had people tell me on the range or the course (even a pretty good instructor) tell me that I had a good looking swing/action; I've even had people stop to watch me hit. At the time, I had yet to break 100. I would have gladly traded my "nice looking" swing for "an octopus falling out of a tree", if it had me threatening par every once in a while.

Like Birdie said, results are the ultimate. And while I love to look at and admire a great looking swing, I'm not going to automatically assume that a great looking swing = a great ballstriker. I've seen enough in my short golfing life to know that isn't always the case, and if I had a say, I wouldn't tell someone to change if the only reason was aesthetics.
 
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softconsult

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Little story, somewhat related.

Like I have said before, I play in a Seniors League twice a week.

The President of the League is 70 years old, and is basically a scratch
player. The guy is a golfing machine, and an ATM. He won the most money by far
last season.

He is a close friend. I'm talking to him a couple of days ago, and ask
him whether he got to play before the snow fell. He says that 6 weeks ago
he was working on getting more on plane (he really doesn't know what that means)
and he severely pulled something in the lower right side of his back. He can't play, and doesn't know how long it will take to heal up. I asked him why in the hell he would feel the need to change a swing that works so well. He said he was trying to get his hands deeper or something like that.

Point is he was trying to fix something that wasn't broken (except in our twisted golf addict minds!)

And to add to the misery, this guy is a member of a very nice club that recently went up for foreclosure auction. The bank bought it, and it's future is currently unknown. He's in misery.
 
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Bigwill

New
softconsult said:
Little story, somewhat related.

Like I have said before, I play in a Seniors League twice a week.

The President of the League is 70 years old, and is basically a scratch
player. The guy is a golfing machine, and an ATM. He won the most money by far
last season.

He is a close friend. I'm talking to him a couple of days ago, and ask
him whether he got to play before the snow fell. He says that 6 weeks ago
he was working on getting more on plane (he really doesn't know what that means)
and he severely pulled something in the lower right side of his back. He can't play, and doesn't know how long it will take to heal up. I asked him why in the hell he would feel the need to change a swing that works so well. He said he was trying to get his hands deeper or something like that.

Point is he was trying to fix something that wasn't broken (except in our twisted golf addict minds!)

And to add to the misery, this guy is a member of a very nice club that recently went up for foreclosure auction. The bank bought it, and it's future is currently unknown. He's in misery.
Click to expand...

I think you may have made my point better than me :)

That sucks about his club. I've never belonged to one, but I can imagine that it's no fun not knowing what's going to happen with it.
 
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weese

New
wulsy said:
Not really, because we never really knew exactly what happenen through impact-separation. On the other hand, are we really in a position to use this very exact info any more than something less exact?




I hear people, sometimes even golf pros, talking about what a great swing this or that player has based on some absurd definition of whether it "looks good" to them. I never know whether to laugh or cry when I hear this, becuase it is just total BS. "Ugly" swings are sometimes better than "nice" ones because they get the job done better. What is "the job": control distance and shape it how you want.
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Well I never said that I don't like Creamer's swing because it is ugly. I like ugly swings that work. But the new science on this site has stated that Creamer has one of the best swings in golf. I couldn't disagree more.

footwedge said:
Paula Creamer has a swing that suits her, the only way it's one of the best is it's among swings that suit a player who can make it work for them, regardless of how it "looks". It's at this point in time the best swing for her. JMO.
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I agree and if I were her swing coach, no way I would try changing that action. Way too late in the game for that.
 
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birly-shirly

New
softconsult said:
Little story, somewhat related.

Like I have said before, I play in a Seniors League twice a week.

The President of the League is 70 years old, and is basically a scratch
player. The guy is a golfing machine, and an ATM. He won the most money by far
last season.

He is a close friend. I'm talking to him a couple of days ago, and ask
him whether he got to play before the snow fell. He says that 6 weeks ago
he was working on getting more on plane (he really doesn't know what that means)
and he severely pulled something in the lower right side of his back. He can't play, and doesn't know how long it will take to heal up. I asked him why in the hell he would feel the need to change a swing that works so well. He said he was trying to get his hands deeper or something like that.

Point is he was trying to fix something that wasn't broken (except in our twisted golf addict minds!)

And to add to the misery, this guy is a member of a very nice club that recently went up for foreclosure auction. The bank bought it, and it's future is currently unknown. He's in misery.
Click to expand...

What's the moral of this story then?

(a) That if you try to improve you'll hurt yourself (and deserve it)?; or
(b) That even scratch golfers are still trying to improve?

Maybe it's the drive to keep trying to improve that keeps him at scratch.

Do you think he would be a better golfer if he were more complacent?

When you say "he doesn't really know what [getting more on plane] means" - do you mean that you stay on plane better than he does?
 
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chipingguru

New
Thorpe and the rest all worked on their games and swings trying to improve. No different than the classic swingers.

Perhaps we need to alter our thinking as to what "looks good".

IMO even swings with some unique characteristics can benefit from a good pro who knows the true dynamics of the swing, whether it be Furyk or Els.

Palmer is probably at the range right now trying to find something.
 
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softconsult

New
"What's the moral of this story then?

(a) That if you try to improve you'll hurt yourself (and deserve it)?; or
(b) That even scratch golfers are still trying to improve?

I don't think there's necessarily a moral. Yes, scratch golfer's do try
to improve. I just found it odd that given his multi-year consistency that he
would mess with his swing. The injury occurred, according to him, because he
changed his downswing position. Stuff happens."

"Maybe it's the drive to keep trying to improve that keeps him at scratch."
Absolutely. In fact, so the story goes, he was always pretty good, but it
was after he retired that he really got good by working his ass off.

"Do you think he would be a better golfer if he were more complacent?"
Hell, no. He is a competitor through and through. I played in the first group with
him probably 6 or 7 times this season. It is fun to watch him and one other guy in particular as they come down the last few holes. They are both grinding and the
chit chat dies down. Complacent , no.

"When you say "he doesn't really know what [getting more on plane] means" - do you mean that you stay on plane better than he does?" Nothing to do with me, but perhaps a confusing comment. He knows what he's trying to do, but he probably couldn't get into
a discussion about the various planes that occur on this forum. Do I stay on plane better than he does? No, I'm sure he says on his plane or planes better than I do. He's much more consistent throughout a round.
 
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alexandjacob

New
yep

trickyric67 said:
I for one am very excited about the project and can't wait to see what it turns out!
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everyone ( i hope) is excited about it.....ok not everyone BUT...we will learn....we will question...we will agree

we will disagree...and in the end..(which we know does not exist) WE will all be better

on a % basis................i will say we will be 168% better

aj
 
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alexandjacob

New
self

hey self nice to see you back

great day for your dad......very happy for him

if you sound sarcastic to some....they just don't understand you

let me help

EVERYONE:

SELF HAS NOT BEEN HIMSELF EVER SINCE ADRIANNA GOT MARRIED.....HE GETTING BETTER BUT ITS A PROCESS......................KIDDING OFCOURSE........GLAD YOUR BACK

AJ
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Hehe. Good to "see" you back Self.

Yup...outcome...is the Final Test.

Science can tell you 'why/how' of course. And get you there. (to a good result)

I didn't post what I did to undermine what Brian and others are doing, of course. Just saying. And I'm sure they know what I mean.

And I know you are just being Zany, Mr. S-M...! Nothing like a little Zane to keep things interesting.

...

I remember having some pretty dumb arguments on another forum about results. I presume whoever I was debating just couldn't admit that HOF golfers are well worth studying...

Of course, if you can get people to neglect Real World Results you can sell them anything you want and call it science, or whatever.

"A market niche."

WTF just sell good stuff instead! Sigh...!
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
Frans@France said:
I somehow have to agree with birdie_man. It's it getting annoying that the project is mentioned time after time but no information is given. But then again it is the man own forum so ....:p
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I was joking!!

Rage Against The Hype Machine!

...

The machine is elsewhere...it runs on Kool Aid and money fumes...

Sniff sniff chug chug.
 
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SteveT

Guest
I sense a wind of foreboding blowing amongst all the "feeel" golfers ... and a scientific tsunami will soon sweep you and your fantasies away ... and it's called Project 1.68 ... BManz has seen the "light" and it's the torch of scientific truth that will conquer all.

Trackman, D-plane and greater minds have convince BManz that The Truth is in simple science ... and BManz will soon descend from the mount and bring us The Word ... and that word will free us all of our golfswing miseries ... believe it.

Prepare for Great Enlightenment ... it's coming ... soon I hope because y'all need it bad ...:eek:
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
Correct, I believe.

Careful with Bible analogies though Steve! Ahhh!

Or maybe Brian can grow a Mighty Beard. (Decembeard)

Feel ain't all bad. (for execution, anyway)
 
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