Sergio's start down move - I got it ! (kinda sorta)

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Ok, I've made some posts recently that perhaps did not make a lot of sense, but I think I actually did make a leap forward in my swing in last night at 8:30 pm EST. (This time, I am going to try to post proof if I can get with Brian and his high speed video camera, so that this is not just another post with seemingly rediculous claims.)

I youtubed Sergio and really looked at his start-down move. I have never been able to achieve that initial move where he pulls his hands down while seemingly leaving the club on the shelf, so to speak (you know when he almost looks like he lays the club on his shoulders at start down even though his hands are moving down- thereby increasing his wristcock)

I do have a Sony Handycam DVD, but its shutter speed it too slow to do me justice in posting on this site. But I filmed myself trying to recreate that move. What I did is this:

Right before the clubhead reached its apex on the backswing, I folded my right elbow in (like I was trying to elbow myself in my right breast) So my stupid swing thought was to elbow myself in the right breast right before my clubhead got to parallel at the the top. It felt weird but I filmed it anyway without a ball. On film (it was blurry) I could see that I had pulled my hands down considerably, but the shaft almost came to rest on my shoulders. And when my hands were at waist high on the way down, the club was still verticle to the ground.

So I couldn't wait until this morning and I went out in a t-shirt (breaching dress code protocols) to the #14 fairway with a 6-iron and P-wedge and plopped a couple balls down at the 200 yard marker. I then proceeded to spank a 6-iron over the green. (Then I hit a couple of really hard fat shots that hurt my hand) Then I threw a couple balls down at the 150 marker and put P-wedge to the back of the green. (proceeded by a couple of thinned balls)

Then I played today and shot 75 on a 10 hcp. I was 2 clubs longer on every club. -60 degree went 90 yards, 7-iron went 180 on the fly.

I make no claims to have Sergio-like lag, but I think I may have somewhat learned the move. Perhaps my explanation or swing thoughts are incorrect, but the ability to leave that shaft at parallel while you've brought your hands down a foot is a tremendous power move.
 

Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
Ah, the fascination with big accumulator lag.....I know it well. That is great if you feel like you got the move. I was never able to be consistent with my low point...as you pointed out, fat and thin shots.

I feel like I have more lag pressure now, and hit it better, but I have less accumulator lag on video.
 

Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
I am in the same boat, and because of that...am much shorter with my irons than my pre-injury swing.

I feel I am longer with the irons....the mid irons especially. But I can see where you are coming from.

My fascination with accum. lag didn't really help my swing and in a lot of ways it stunted it's growth.

I have a decent angle it's just not Hogan/Sergio like.
 
Man, I'd love to have that kind of lag, I just have two problems.

1. My wrists aren't that flexible.
2. For every one I hit straight when I try to lag it that much, I hit 5 or 6 big time right. Or let it fly through and snap one.

I'm not sure that kind of lag can be really taught, seems to me to be a god given talent.
 
tong??

who is B.W.H.???

SURELY NOT BEN HOGAN

HIS FIRST NAME WAS WILLIAM

IM SHOUTING CUZ YOUR IN LONDON AND I AM IN FLORIDA
 
....

Man, I'd love to have that kind of lag, I just have two problems.

1. My wrists aren't that flexible.
2. For every one I hit straight when I try to lag it that much, I hit 5 or 6 big time right. Or let it fly through and snap one.

I'm not sure that kind of lag can be really taught, seems to me to be a god given talent.

tball,
this comes from a really old golf booklet (which i have now lost and was full of interesting stuff...:))

"To create lag on the downswing, simply imagine the feeling that the clubshaft is staying as close to your neck as possible as you swing down"...

And it is that simple...:)
 
puttmad, I have decent lag, I'm longer than most I would say, 160-165 8 iron, 170-175 7. Hit my driver typically 260-280. I just can't create that silly lag that Sergio has.

I just can't loosen my wrists up that much. I've tried it before and I've hit a couple of balls that were smoked, just never could get quite get the timing down and would miss balls right. I'm not sure I hit the ball that much further, or I just delofted the crap out of it...
 
Hogan did have slightly more flexible wrists than most people. But that's definitely not the only explanation for his accumulator lag. There are lots of little things he employed to create that lag without screwing up his swing. I hear some people talking about lose wrists. Yes you do need lose wrists. But you also need a reasonably firm grip. How do you get a firm grip and still have lose wrists? I believe there's a little secret (I don't really like that word but i'll use it here to create some hype) he used to do just that - create a firm stable grip with supple wrists. If you don't know about this, even if you created Hoganesque lag, you wouldn't be as consistent as you could be if you used this technique.
 
Hogan did have slightly more flexible wrists than most people. But that's definitely not the only explanation for his accumulator lag. There are lots of little things he employed to create that lag without screwing up his swing. I hear some people talking about lose wrists. Yes you do need lose wrists. But you also need a reasonably firm grip. How do you get a firm grip and still have lose wrists? I believe there's a little secret (I don't really like that word but i'll use it here to create some hype) he used to do just that - create a firm stable grip with supple wrists. If you don't know about this, even if you created Hoganesque lag, you wouldn't be as consistent as you could be if you used this technique.

I really had to change some things to accomplish the acute angle. For one, I had to cup my left wrist. Second, I lost my width on the way down by bending my left arm.

I did play today, but I really took the move to the extreme on every shot and ending up shooting 82 with three 3-putts. I didn't even go to parallel with driver on my old swing and I was trying to lay the club across my shoulders on the down swing today. I was actually getting steep a bit, too. I had a problem clubbing myself b/c I used to hit PW 118-123 yards and now it can be 135 upwards to 150 if I go at it hard. Funny thing is I'm trending from 10 straight to 7, so that's pretty cool.

My left wrist hurts quite a bit, too, from the miss hits. I think I'm going to stick with the concept, but I just can take it to the extreme like I did today without working some timing issues out on the range.

I don't see how anybody, or at least I, can achieve the positions in my frames 12-14 with a flat left wrist though.
 
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I believe there's a little secret (I don't really like that word but i'll use it here to create some hype) he used to do just that - create a firm stable grip with supple wrists. If you don't know about this, even if you created Hoganesque lag, you wouldn't be as consistent as you could be if you used this technique.

O c'mon Leo...!

:rolleyes::D
 
Hogan did have slightly more flexible wrists than most people. But that's definitely not the only explanation for his accumulator lag. There are lots of little things he employed to create that lag without screwing up his swing. I hear some people talking about lose wrists. Yes you do need lose wrists. But you also need a reasonably firm grip. How do you get a firm grip and still have lose wrists? I believe there's a little secret (I don't really like that word but i'll use it here to create some hype) he used to do just that - create a firm stable grip with supple wrists. If you don't know about this, even if you created Hoganesque lag, you wouldn't be as consistent as you could be if you used this technique.

i lost my wrists just reading this post...
 
I don't see how anybody, or at least I, can achieve the positions in my frames 12-14 with a flat left wrist though.

I think you'll find the pros who do it have a slightly different left thumb that you and I..:)
Many of them can bend it back to nearly touch their left forearm, sort of double jointed....
 
I can try and get that sort of lag but theres no way I can release the club, club face is WIDE open at impact if I even try. Feels like the right elbow goes down at the ball and the angle is steep. Doesnt even Tiger say he tries to feel like he straightens the right arm early in the downswing to stop it going right?

If someone can tell me how to release the club from pic 13-14 i'd be happy!
 
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