shaft lean, accuracy, and the D plane

[holeout]

If you want a dead straight iron shot, you need to have a plane line that is aimed left of the target. Reason being that you have to hit down to a certain degree with all irons, just to make them fly properly. Brian figured this out with Trackman a few weeks ago. The true path of the clubhead will then be at the target. And obviously, you need the clubface aimed at the target as well.

In my estimation, the only thing you could "aim straight" with (meaning straight plane line at the target) would be a driver (if you didn't hit up on it) or a 3 wood (if you didn't take a divot and picked it perfectly off the turf).

 

[mandrin]

Could not resist....

Nothing wrong with banging down on the ball...

If you know where to aim.

There is a certain amount of shaft lean BUILT IN to the geometry of the golf club. So you have to deal with that as well.

There are "Flippers" who can't play dead in a war movie, and there are "Scrapers," "Polishers," and "Pickers," all on the PGA TOUR.

And for the 1,234th time, "Shaft Lean"—the amount the clubshaft leans toward the target at impact, is NOT a one to one relationship to hitting down.

Some pics from a few years back to illustrate this point:

Just haphazardly going through the archives I noticed the very large changes in only a short time. Just a few years ago many would have burned me on the stakes given the opportunity. Presently very different clientele, flooding of questions but not many lengthy discussions. Reason obviously both the fading in the background of the TGM philosophy and departure of those clinging on to TGM. Since many have been very generous 'criticizing' me over the years in all possible ways it is good to see that Brian himself has given credit where credit due. This thread and the pics shown reminded me of one of his posts:

For years I thought that Low Point was ALWAYS UNDER the Left Shoulder unless there was throwaway. I was wrong and Mandrin is the one that pointed it out and Tom Bartlett helped me understand it. When I am wrong I am the quickest teacher in golf to admit it and change my approach.

Thanks, BM

 

[birdie_man]

funny how the old legends figured it all out pre-info and technology. kinda makes you wonder...

The Ball Is The Boss, baby.

 

[Jared Willerson]

So the appearance of "big lag" in the downswing is more a product of shoulder location than anything else.

Would 5 degrees of negative shoulder tilt hit the ball further? Or with the 15 degree tilt does the speed come from somewhere else?

These pics cleared up a lot.

 

[tongzilla]

hello

I see.

Let me try to clarify to see if I'm on the right page.

Straight Iron Shot Off The Deck

Clubhead needs to go outside-in at impact relative to the target line for a straight iron shot.

True clubface direction needs to be square to the target line (?).

So you can AIM left, right or square and still hit a straight shot as long as the club is doing the above two things.

More confusion: even if the clubhead is going outside-in relative to the target line, it's actually going inside-out relative to your swing because the clubhead still hasn't reached low point yet.

Mr Brian Manzella, please confirm my above statements.

Leo,

you are on the right track...I am working on something very good.

I wonder if we have any updates on this.

 

[mb6606]

Brian how does the soft draw pattern work within this framework? Doesn't soft draw align right and swing out to the right??

 

[rick lamb]

Wisdom of Harvey Penick

with respect to swinging left for a straight ball, the bit I never quite got from the Red Book was the "shortstop" imagery - - thanks to Brian and the crew here, now I am finally beginning to get it. Tom Kite got it at Pebble Beach, and I wonder if even he understood why.

"I was lining up left and blocking everything to the right," Kite recalled. "Harvey watched me for a while, then he said, 'Just feel like you're going to hit the ball over the shortstop's head.' I carried that image right through winning the Open at Pebble Beach."

 

[tongzilla]

Brian how does the soft draw pattern work within this framework? Doesn't soft draw align right and swing out to the right??

Very good question. I suspect it's a relative thing. Let's hear what the man says.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Brian how does the soft draw pattern work within this framework? Doesn't soft draw align right and swing out to the right??

I'll have some actual TrackMan numbers for all the patterns soon.

But, as far as "Soft Draw" goes, it is about in this ballpark for a 6-iron:

Stance Line: ~ 1° to the right
Plane Line: ~ 1° to the right
True Path: ~ 4° inside-out
Clubface: 2° open

Result: Soft Draw Ace

 

[mb6606]

Stance Line: ~ 1° to the right
Plane Line: ~ 1° to the right
True Path: ~ 4° inside-out
Clubface: 2° open

Result: Soft Draw Ace

These look like swinging right numbers correct? If you swing left (pattern 13???) what should the numbers look like?

 

[Brian Manzella]

These look like swinging right numbers correct? If you swing left (pattern 13???) what should the numbers look like?

Well...to hit a draw, you have to swing (to the) right somewhat. Or aim well right.

PATTERN #13 will ZERO OUT the TRUE PATH and the CLUBFACE and produce OPTIMUM spin.

And.....the other numbers are not "for publication" right now.

 

[mb6606]

Well...to hit a draw, you have to swing (to the) right somewhat. Or aim well right.

PATTERN #13 will ZERO OUT the TRUE PATH and the CLUBFACE and produce OPTIMUM spin.

And.....the other numbers are not "for publication" right now.

Is there an ETA for release of Pattern 13? Why sell a video with Pattern 13 and the supporting Trackman numbers?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Is there an ETA for release of Pattern 13?

Not yet.

Still working on it.

Why sell a video with Pattern 13 and the supporting Trackman numbers?

I don't understand the question....can you re-phrase?

 

[curtisj76]

I bet he meant: "Why NOT sell a video with Pattern 13 and the supporting Trackman #'s"

 

[mb6606]

I bet he meant: "Why NOT sell a video with Pattern 13 and the supporting Trackman #'s"

Si senor!

 

[Brian Manzella]

I am ABSOLUTELY PLANNING to do just that.

 

[curtisj76]

So what type of player would benefit from this "Pattern 13"?

Is it "Do it Right"?