Shallow during transition

[JEREMY5577]

Shallow early and steepen late is the hardest thing for me to get consistent. I usually steepen early and shallow late = early extension and backed up shaft. But, I found that during the transition rotating the right humerus clockwise or away from the target before bringing the right elbow in front of the right hip does the shallowing nicely. Or in other words exactly the move you make in a side arm throw.
I found myself hitting skyballs and working too far under at first but after adding enough tumble and reminding myself to steepen late it's becoming very repeatable.

 

[Bonesy]

I have a similar feel. I try to hit a vertical wall extending up from my base line (from target thru ball to infinity) with the back side of my club face. Starting from "top" it feels as if I'm trying to roll both of my forearms counter clockwise while being sure not to tug. The club goes behind me and then around/down on what feels like a flat plane. Once the club feels like it is out in front of me, I can steepen and jump all over the ball with my right arm with confidence.

 

[JEREMY5577]

I have a similar feel. I try to hit a vertical wall extending up from my base line (from target thru ball to infinity) with the back side of my club face. Starting from "top" it feels as if I'm trying to roll both of my forearms counter clockwise while being sure not to tug. The club goes behind me and then around/down on what feels like a flat plane. Once the club feels like it is out in front of me, I can steepen and jump all over the ball with my right arm with confidence.

That sounds very similar Bonesy. I also really needed to focus on the mechanics of a side arm throw, that is get good at throwing side arm with my right arm. It's tricky because I throw left handed.

 

[cwdlaw223]

Delofting with a shallow AoA is the holy grail. Most people that deloft slam the club in the ground and have a steep AoA. It isn't easy.

Most use a steep AoA to deloft the club (I know that I do more than I should). If you hold onto the angle in the downswing you're giving up speed (which becomes more prevelant with lower lofted and longer clubs). Some people have speed to burn so holding the angle might work for them since they don't need additional speed.

Anyone can "hold the angle" with a wedge (watch out for some guy in biker shorts with an 80s tennis racket - no force in that racket for his demonstrations - I suspect he would fall over if he tried his demonstration with a driver and an all out swing). Much, much harder to do it with the driver and all of that force in the clubhead trying to unhinge your hands.

 

[softconsult]

Sorry, but I just find it surprising that the user "Coach" finds it perfectly acceptable to post a video link on Brian's site to a 27 minute instructional video from, in essence, a competitor's site/business. Something about the sort of scripted back and forth dialog is well, irritating and phony, at least to me.

 

[coach]

Just adding to the conversation, if its against policy then it can be removed.

 

[johnnymarlboro]

I'm pretty sure Joe Mayo is a friend of the site, but technically it is against the rules. I think Coach is just trying to help though.

 

[Erik_K]

Just adding to the conversation, if its against policy then it can be removed.

Agreed. Waite and/or Mayo didn't post the video directly, nor did coach encourage anyone to visit their site seeking another opinion. I actually liked the video - some very interesting points about AoA, axis tilt, etc.

Erik

 

[spktho]

Shallow early and steepen late is the hardest thing for me to get consistent. I usually steepen early and shallow late = early extension and backed up shaft. But, I found that during the transition rotating the right humerus clockwise or away from the target before bringing the right elbow in front of the right hip does the shallowing nicely. Or in other words exactly the move you make in a side arm throw.
I found myself hitting skyballs and working too far under at first but after adding enough tumble and reminding myself to steepen late it's becoming very repeatable.

I gave up trying to get the right elbow in front of the right hip because it seemed to cause my hand path to go out too much and robbed speed. I was probably getting too under also. Try getting the right elbow on the side of the right hip.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Interesting video by Joe Mayo and Grant Waite on steepening and shallowing

Hey, not denying their popularity but I don't agree with much in this video. Interesting to get Brian's take.
You can get whatever ballflight he's talking about without that phony finish.

 

[BrendanC]

First two minutes is "keep hands ahead of handle and slow the rate of closure".

Not the universal info they present it as.

Not so good for some people.

Especially me.

 

[gmbtempe]

Hey, not denying their popularity but I don't agree with much in this video. Interesting to get Brian's take.
You can get whatever ballflight he's talking about without that phony finish.

I would agree, there is good and bad in there but for the average player there are things I think will not work out well.

Now for the over the top totoal hack, good pattern.

 

[JEREMY5577]

I gave up trying to get the right elbow in front of the right hip because it seemed to cause my hand path to go out too much and robbed speed. I was probably getting too under also. Try getting the right elbow on the side of the right hip.

I see what your saying. I just think of it as where the right elbow will be unhinging not trying to force it there.
spktho, with your baseball background can you explain a little more about the micro moves you make with your arms during the transition? We all know you steepen by trying to slap yourself in the nuts but I mean before that. How do you keep vertical hands but shallow the shaft?

 

[mjh116]

I would agree, there is good and bad in there but for the average player there are things I think will not work out well.

Now for the over the top totoal hack, good pattern.

I'm sorry but these comments really bother me. It's not good info but for a total hack is a good pattern?!!? What?!!? Handle dragging, hit down, up the left arm ... I thought the idea of instruction was to improve the players skill set, not keep giving the same old bs that has kept the average golfers handicap from dropping... If Brian were to "teach" this, I could only imagine how much he'd get bashed for it... oh wait, the video that doesn't even show the ball flight or proximity to target is all the proof that's needed, my bad.. I'll just stick to the good stuff on this site, thanks!

 

[gmbtempe]

I'm sorry but these comments really bother me. It's not good info but for a total hack is a good pattern?!!? What?!!? Handle dragging, hit down, up the left arm ... I thought the idea of instruction was to improve the players skill set, not keep giving the same old bs that has kept the average golfers handicap from dropping... If Brian were to "teach" this, I could only imagine how much he'd get bashed for it... oh wait, the video that doesn't even show the ball flight or proximity to target is all the proof that's needed, my bad.. I'll just stick to the good stuff on this site, thanks!

Opinion of a ametuer (but one that has tried this and many patterns)

Explaining this would require a lot of effort, linking and talking about other theories which is not premitted on this board.

To sum it up sliding excessively creating room will help a player come from the inside, sliding excessively though will limit rotation creating other problems, problems that are not as important to the player who slices the ball constantly.

 

[rogerdodger]

If you get the left hand closer to your left hip at impact, would not the right elbow have to be in front of the right hip? Would'nt tumbling the shaft move the left arm closer to the left hip at impact, therefore moving the right elbow closer the left hip than right? At least at impact? Not sure why it is a hand path issue only?

 

[spktho]

I see what your saying. I just think of it as where the right elbow will be unhinging not trying to force it there.
spktho, with your baseball background can you explain a little more about the micro moves you make with your arms during the transition? We all know you steepen by trying to slap yourself in the nuts but I mean before that. How do you keep vertical hands but shallow the shaft?

Bend the right wrist back more or hold it bent longer in the transition.

 

[gmbtempe]

If you get the left hand closer to your left hip at impact, would not the right elbow have to be in front of the right hip?

The pitch and punch elbow is a big source of discussion in that camp.

 

[JEREMY5577]

Bend the right wrist back more or hold it bent longer in the transition.

Sounds good thats exactly what happens when I rotate my right arm in a clockwise fashion. The hands drop straight down with gravity and right wrist bends back then it slings through with the tumble. Feels like one motion.

 

[spktho]

Opinion of a ametuer (but one that has tried this and many patterns)

problems that are not as important to the player who slices the ball constantly.

Only if the slice is caused by outside path issues alone.