Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Honestly, i bet that would be a HOT SELLING video.
Shanking—the STONE TRUTH.
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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Honestly, i bet that would be a HOT SELLING video.
tongzilla
New
You are really hedging your bets aren't you? I can't remember a Manzella video that wasn't hot selling.
The rest can't be found now Jim, I know that there is maybe a little bit in NSA, but the previous ones are no longer available.
Plus, I do feel it clearly needs revisited as there are people out there shanking with a square face at impact and don't know why.
I only started doing it after watching Confessions of a Former Flipper and trying to keep a flat left wrist, as have other people so I do feel that there is something in those patterns that encourages the possibility of a shank.
I did buy NSA then as well but I still haven't figured it out.
I'm not disputing the quality of either video, found them to be very very useful and has certainly set me on the right path, and if I can eliminate this small but catastrophic error, I will definitely be on to better things/scores.
If I can understand shanking, I'll be sorted!
B
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You Can do it this way Jim you are right. I would still prefer to teach people to move the ball aft a couple of inches and in an inch or two (then adjust their shoulder to ball radius) to Guarantee a lower trjectorory. This moves the ball inside and up the inclined plane and if your clubface is looking more to the target you will sting the crap out of it and all your accumulators will seek and in-line condition.
I felt like I was crowding the plate a little your way beacuse I don't think you believe in adjusting the radius when you move closer to it you would prefer to make that fit in move
You Can do it this way Jim you are right. I would still prefer to teach people to move the ball aft a couple of inches and in an inch or two (then adjust their shoulder to ball radius) to Guarantee a lower trjectorory. This moves the ball inside and up the inclined plane and if your clubface is looking more to the target you will sting the crap out of it and all your accumulators will seek and in-line condition.
I felt like I was crowding the plate a little your way beacuse I don't think you believe in adjusting the radius when you move closer to it you would prefer to make that fit in move
i did that once. my immature friends insisted on whispering 'ssshhaaaaaaaannnkkk' so i could just hear it as i set up over a 4 iron tee shot over water to a narrow fairway with OB on the left. dont really know what happened but i got a fairly nice divot, but a nasty, but shamefully recognisable, crack as the ball flew 60* to the right, so far right it was right if the water leaving me another 4 iron in to the green.
thats a point, i know people who will shank it if they hear the word. is there a mechanical reason for this?? when we hear the word, we associate it with the feeling of the hosel, and lagging the hosel, and we go and do it
sound right?
I hate that. Really I do. My friend would watch and comment how I haven't shanked and without fail I would shank the very next ball.
Not really mechanical though is it? We hear shank, we think shank (or OMG please please please please don't shank) and our brains let us shank. Just like how sometimes I think (pray) not to slice or hook on a hole and we end up doing it despite doing fine before. I know I freaking hate that stuff.
Chris Sturgess
New member
Your friend should tell you you haven't gotten a hole in one in a while.
the brain cant do negative thoughts. if you say 'dont think of a black cat' what do you immediately think of?
so the word triggers the part of the memory that knows what a shank feels like, and how to produce one, without us realising it.
spose we could take that for good shots too. like, if you want a cut, hit some huge slices, get the feeling for it, then let your brain identify the motion, so when you want your fade, you know exactly how to do it, without knwing how to do it
Chris Sturgess
New member
I like to light a couple pine flavored candles during my preshot routine too, because it smells like augusta and channels memories of Nicklaus in 86.
birdie_man
New
Yup. The brain is "non-discriminatory".............to use a term I heard.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Shanking.
This shanking discussion, as well as the ones I have had over the years on this site, is the funniest thing ever to those who know what really causes the shank and know how to fix it.
I just got off of the phone with Mike Jacobs, and he said it never takes him more than a few minutes to fix the problem.
Same here.
Anyhoo, once upon a time, at a PGA National Teaching Summit, Peggy Kirk Bell, who had been around golf longer than "Brucifier" and "Twitch" have been alive combined, gave a live lesson to a fairly decent playing lady who on the second ball started shanking. Peggy tried everything Chris Sturgess would have, and a few dozen more, and after over 35 minutes of consecutive shanking—with zero balls off the center or back of the hosel—quit the lesson she was given in front of 1000 PGA Pros, because she couldn't solve the problem.
I spoke to another one of my professional students today, who saw a top 100/50 teacher give a shank lesson without any luck as well.
Why doesn't this happen to Mike Jacobs. Why does it not happen to me, or Mike Finney, or Tom Bartlett, Ryan Smither, Don Villavaso, etc??
Because, we know better.
Anyhoo, I was teaching today in Louisville and was ready to shoot a free shanking video to explain all of this in plain view, but the weather really too a turn for the worse, and it won't be any better tomorrow.
Working on an indoor version...
This shanking discussion, as well as the ones I have had over the years on this site, is the funniest thing ever to those who know what really causes the shank and know how to fix it.
I just got off of the phone with Mike Jacobs, and he said it never takes him more than a few minutes to fix the problem.
Same here.
Anyhoo, once upon a time, at a PGA National Teaching Summit, Peggy Kirk Bell, who had been around golf longer than "Brucifier" and "Twitch" have been alive combined, gave a live lesson to a fairly decent playing lady who on the second ball started shanking. Peggy tried everything Chris Sturgess would have, and a few dozen more, and after over 35 minutes of consecutive shanking—with zero balls off the center or back of the hosel—quit the lesson she was given in front of 1000 PGA Pros, because she couldn't solve the problem.
I spoke to another one of my professional students today, who saw a top 100/50 teacher give a shank lesson without any luck as well.
Why doesn't this happen to Mike Jacobs. Why does it not happen to me, or Mike Finney, or Tom Bartlett, Ryan Smither, Don Villavaso, etc??
Because, we know better.
Anyhoo, I was teaching today in Louisville and was ready to shoot a free shanking video to explain all of this in plain view, but the weather really too a turn for the worse, and it won't be any better tomorrow.
Working on an indoor version...
dsmith2296
New
Brian,
You know Hamburger, right? See my previous quote below and comment on whether Hamburger's cure for me (which worked) makes sense:
The recent eureka moment for me was yesterday's lesson wherein I discovered I was rolling my right arm over my left BEFORE impact whilst losing all tilt and moving my head laterally toward the target. If you mimic that condition, you will see that the clubhead will be well BEYOND the ball at impact- assuming a normal address. But now I concentrate on leaving daylight between my forearms prior to impact with my left forearm on top whilst maintaining axis tilt and keeping my head stationary.
You know Hamburger, right? See my previous quote below and comment on whether Hamburger's cure for me (which worked) makes sense:
The recent eureka moment for me was yesterday's lesson wherein I discovered I was rolling my right arm over my left BEFORE impact whilst losing all tilt and moving my head laterally toward the target. If you mimic that condition, you will see that the clubhead will be well BEYOND the ball at impact- assuming a normal address. But now I concentrate on leaving daylight between my forearms prior to impact with my left forearm on top whilst maintaining axis tilt and keeping my head stationary.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Ahh....yup.
Chris Hamburger. Manzella Academy Instructor.Took first lesson from me in about 1990. Stood in my wedding...
What you are taking about Darby is a CURE, I am taking about a CAUSE.
Staying on your heels—or off of your toes—helps shankers in a couple of ways.
It keeps you from having to "fit it in." And, it allows your arms to straighten in the follow through. (and a few more)...
When your RIGHT ARM is higher then your left you have two choices:
When you have a lack of axis tilt, you have two choices:
Sounds like a good fix to me.
Chris Hamburger. Manzella Academy Instructor.Took first lesson from me in about 1990. Stood in my wedding...
What you are taking about Darby is a CURE, I am taking about a CAUSE.
Staying on your heels—or off of your toes—helps shankers in a couple of ways.
It keeps you from having to "fit it in." And, it allows your arms to straighten in the follow through. (and a few more)...
When your RIGHT ARM is higher then your left you have two choices:
1. Block Fade
2. Work UNDER IT at the last second.
2. Work UNDER IT at the last second.
When you have a lack of axis tilt, you have two choices:
1. Add tilt late—and work under it.
2. Get under the sweetspot to save the inevitable pull.
2. Get under the sweetspot to save the inevitable pull.
Sounds like a good fix to me.
birdie_man
New
So long as you haven't opened your face too much in the backswing.......correct?
Chris Sturgess
New member
Well that was a fun substanceless, self promotional paragraph and all, but I have cured people of the shanks in one or two balls multiple times.
Chris Sturgess
New member
I wasn't rude. He said Peggy tried everything I would have and still shanked, that is not true. Ironically, I recommended to Brucifer to have his weight towards his heels in the thread that got deleted, and then Brian talks about how that helps shankers in his next post. But yet he implies that I wouldn't have told "Peggy" to try that. Please.
I dont understand ANY of this.
I always thought, having learned from Brian Tom and Big Don, that a shank was caused by having the sweetspot above plane at impact.
I'm sure I'm not as knowledgeable as all of you guys, but thats it, end of story.
To fix it, hit the inside quadrant, or get a little more below your plane.
What am I missing?
I always thought, having learned from Brian Tom and Big Don, that a shank was caused by having the sweetspot above plane at impact.
I'm sure I'm not as knowledgeable as all of you guys, but thats it, end of story.
To fix it, hit the inside quadrant, or get a little more below your plane.
What am I missing?
dsmith2296
New
I really think that everybody is really over complicating this discussion. A shank occurs because the hosel gets too close to the ball at impact. Seeing how no reasonable golfer would address the ball off the hosel, the only logical conclusion is that something happened to make the hosel get closer to the ball at impact than it was at address. All of this sweet spot talk and lagging the hosel talk is unnecessarily over-complicated.
The question is why did your body make the hosel get too close to the ball? and why did your mind not sense the closeness and make a correction?
The question is why did your body make the hosel get too close to the ball? and why did your mind not sense the closeness and make a correction?
Forgetting to monitor the sweetspot is not an "overcomplicated reason," it's the reason I started to occasionally hit shanks when I switched from being an angled-hinging right side dominant hitter to a horizontal hinging left side dominant swinger who was trying to use maximum trigger delay (and in the overcompensation process of adjusting, losing awareness of the sweetspot). Each time I did I shank, I just had to remind myself to resume monitoring the sweetspot (keep the mind in #3) and the shanking stopped immediately.
Fortunately I had read enough here to read and understand this concept, so I was able to proceed to the course instead of quitting golf after having a couple warm-up sessions that included several shanks in recent months. Standing closer to or further from the ball doesn't address the root cause of most shanks, it's just an attempt at a quick fix. Moving closer to or further from the ball might fix lots of problems (and of course create some new problems) without addressing the root causes of the problems. If everytime you lined up 1 inch closer or 1 inch further than normal from the ball golfers shanked, there would be a lot more shanking going on on the course.
Sorry for the repeated use of the "s" word.
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