So Trackman proves you hit up with Driver - correct?

[puttmad]

...

Goes back to my point about Faldo in trying to hit up he almost fell backwards and obviously had pain in his right side which he made light of. This attempt to hit up did not prduce any further carry. So why bother.

If you remember he did qualify it by saying the ball flight was very high....so obviously less loft would have produced more distance...

 

[joeparr]

-I thought more flight you get more distance....joe

 

[puttmad]

....

-I thought more flight you get more distance....joe

Not neccessariy...there is a trade off between optimum launch angle, backspin, carry and roll.....too high a launch will cost you....

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

with such a big difference in spin rates, couldn't the shaft be a factor?

Here is (from my experience) the most to least influential factors on clubhead spin:

1) Loft
2) COG of head
3) shaft
4) ball

*Technique...not quite sure where to throw that one though.

-------------

Also both drivers are very different from each other. The superquad has always been a "higher spinning" head for the majority of players who have used it (which is why the Burner is so popular, much lower spin rates). The hibore tour xl has a 2-3* open face and is known for it's low spin rates and lower launch angles.

 

[Robbohank]

Here is (from my experience) the most to least influential factors on clubhead spin:

1) Loft
2) COG of head
3) shaft
4) ball

*Technique...not quite sure where to throw that one though.

-------------

Also both drivers are very different from each other. The superquad has always been a "higher spinning" head for the majority of players who have used it (which is why the Burner is so popular, much lower spin rates). The hibore tour xl has a 2-3* open face and is known for it's low spin rates and lower launch angles.

Jim/Brian,

Where do you go to get your information on the different driver head characteristics? The change in Brian's spin rate is remarkable.... and just by going to a different clubhead??!!! (I'm sort of surprised he had the R7 in his hands to begin with!). Surely all the manufacturers are going to be touting the same marketing hype.

I talked with a club repair guy who works with some of the local touring professionals here (one who played in the Mercedes last week). With that particular player they spent 2 and a half days getting his driver dialed in. Obviously the average player (or even the really good amateur) can't get (or probably afford) that kind of attention, but where do we start? Is it purely about finding a good fitter?

Robbo

 

[joeparr]

Simply put, if I were to go to a club maker and ask for a club that will give me a low spin rate what would I ask for. I now have a 12 degree loft and my spin rate is very high (5000). so I use hard balls. If I were to get a lower loft would I lose my accuracy which I am very good at. I can only carry 210-215 cause I do hit it very high. so in other words what am I looking for to get a little more distance?..joe

 

[bray]

Loft and COG of Clubhead have a greater effect on launch angle, or how high the ball launches off the face, the first half off the balls flight.

The shaft and ball have a greater effect on spin rate, how the ball reacts down range, or the second half of the balls flight and amount of roll.

A clubhead can and does affect spin rate, but IMO and experience the shaft and ball play a bigger role.

Sorting Through the Golf Nut's Catalog.

B-Ray

 

[Chris Sturgess]

Simply put, if I were to go to a club maker and ask for a club that will give me a low spin rate what would I ask for. I now have a 12 degree loft and my spin rate is very high (5000). so I use hard balls. If I were to get a lower loft would I lose my accuracy which I am very good at. I can only carry 210-215 cause I do hit it very high. so in other words what am I looking for to get a little more distance?..joe

Do you have a 12 degree "loft" or 12 degree "launch angle"? That is an important distinction. You want a 12 degree launch angle, and you want to get that with a driver that is lofted less than 12 degrees. That will minimize spin. Do those two things and see what your new spin rate is.

 

[Ringer]

The most messed up I have ever seen a student was when she was told be an instructor to hit up on the ball and to practice this by putting her left foot up on a basket and hit her driver.

I wish I could say I saved her right away but it took 3 lessons just for her to strike the ball 10 times in a row without topping it.

 

[Leek]

Jim/Brian,

Where do you go to get your information on the different driver head characteristics? The change in Brian's spin rate is remarkable.... and just by going to a different clubhead??!!! (I'm sort of surprised he had the R7 in his hands to begin with!). Surely all the manufacturers are going to be touting the same marketing hype.

I talked with a club repair guy who works with some of the local touring professionals here (one who played in the Mercedes last week). With that particular player they spent 2 and a half days getting his driver dialed in. Obviously the average player (or even the really good amateur) can't get (or probably afford) that kind of attention, but where do we start? Is it purely about finding a good fitter?

Robbo

Robbo- it's a little worse than that. Tolerance ranges on loft are very large. As an example, I had my "10.5 degree" driver measured yesterday and guess what, it's 12 degrees. I had another driver marked 10.5 degrees measured (same driver make and model) it was 9 degrees. You gotta find a fitter that can work with you and get you a clubhead that actually IS the recommended loft. Also one that can have you try different shafts based on your NEEDS to get a loft and shaft combination, coupled with the CG that allows you to launch at a good angle and have spin in the range that is optimized for your swing and clubhead speed. There are some very good fitters out there that can do this at a reasonable cost. If you need a recommendation, pm me and I'll try to help you find someone in your area.

 

[bennycoop9882]

Other thoughts

A few other things to consider:

1. A shafts bend point (higher bend point leads to lower launch angle and likewise the other way)

2. A club face that sets up closed will effectively add loft and likewise the other way which explains some of the 3 degrees open hibore tour giving lower spin rates than a less open superquad.

3. The hibore managed to locate the center of gravity lower and deeper (further back from the ball) than the super quad with the scooped out top. That gives a lower spin rate.


Other factors that I haven't looked into could be the difference in bulge in the two drivers, the difference in shaft obviously and loft differences but all things being equal, the hibore tour is a really low spinning head. I also just recently bought one after being amazed at the numbers I was getting. I have a big problem with high spin on the driver. I've tried tons of different drivers and all different kinds of shafts and head combos (Bridgestone J33P 8.5 with PM 702 Xflex, Cleveland Comp 8.5 with NT Proto X flex, TM 510 TP 8.5 with a 757, 8.5 Titleist 905S with YS-7 X flex) to try to compensate but they were either too stiff and boardy or too much workability which meant I was getting good numbers but missing too many fairways. The hibore tour has been wonderful in that it combined some forgiveness, workability and wonderful spin rates. One large factor is how solid you hit the ball. Some of the older drivers that kept spin down were harder to hit thus negating the effect unless your a touring pro. The hibour has been easier to hit solid. Anyways, I hope this helps explain a bit.

 

[mjstrong]

The most messed up I have ever seen a student was when she was told be an instructor to hit up on the ball and to practice this by putting her left foot up on a basket and hit her driver.

Yikes.

It it my position that the swing best suited to launch the ball the furthest and the swing that will repeat itself the most consistently are not one in the same. Yes, it may be that you could hit the ball further by hitting up on it more but unless you are willing to swing differently, not just set up differently, with a driver, you may not be able to get the best of both worlds...

 

[cjgolf]

Titleist van fitter

back in October I happened to turn up at a club that had one of those big Titliest vans with the LM they use.

abt 200 driver head and shaft combos all up.

I spent abt 2 hrs talking to the main guy - he actually set up the program and had been doing this for abt 5 yrs. has access to all the Titleist data etc

FWIW he told me that the optimal was 1 or 2 degrees upward angle of attack for the really long hitters on the tour.

of course that is not the be all and end all as for some people trying to achieve that wld screw up a few other things