subconscious thread

[JEREMY5577]

Does the subconscious need to be trained or should it already know what movements to make in a golf swing?

 

[mgranato]

Which of your's wrote this?

 

[JEREMY5577]

Which of your's wrote this?

Well I took a typing class in 8th grade so both. But I'm serious about the question. Dariuz says subconscious doesn't need training. I'm wondering if there could be any movements in the golf swing that do for some people.

 

[hrely]

Well I took a typing class in 8th grade so both. But I'm serious about the question. Dariuz says subconscious doesn't need training. I'm wondering if there could be any movements in the golf swing that do for some people.

Surely it varies. Arnold Palmer said his dad showed him the proper grip, told him to keep his head down and cut him loose.
Well, as it turns out keeping your head down isn't necessarily the best advice but it didn't slow Arnie down any. I'm just saying that the amount of training needed is influenced by the level of hand eye coordination and innate ability.

 

[drewitgolf]

The subconscious mind needs to be trained through repetition of conscious thought until it becomes automatic.

 

[mgranato]

It may not need training, but it also doesn't have to deal with consequences.

Nothing about these movements are natural (until learned and repeated ad nauseum). Heck, next time you see a Habitat for Humanity site, stop in and look at how many of those folks suck at subconsciously using a hammer to hit a nail. The skill still needs to be learnt and repeated.

I bet you and I can do all sorts of new unnatural movements and patterns with our subconscious, but how many of those do you think will be done optimally or even good? The idea is to play to our potential, which is out of our comfort zone. I really prefer my subconscious to know what the heck it's doing, because guess which part of the mind has to pay at the end of the round if it doesn't?

 

[drewitgolf]

You have to change the Self Image to adjust "the comfort zone." That is not easy to do, but like training the subconscious mind, it can be done.

 

[Dariusz J.]

DO NOT TREAT IT AS THE UNIVERSAL TRUTH, but:

Dariuz says subconscious doesn't need training. I'm wondering if there could be any movements in the golf swing that do for some people.

Never said it does not need training at all. It would be as silly as claiming that subconscious mind can exist without conscious mind and viceversa. I just claimed, claim and will claim that subconscious-friendly activities will make the motion natural and, thus, more effective.

Surely it varies. Arnold Palmer said his dad showed him the proper grip, told him to keep his head down and cut him loose.Well, as it turns out keeping your head down isn't necessarily the best advice but it didn't slow Arnie down any. I'm just saying that the amount of training needed is influenced by the level of hand eye coordination and innate ability.

Exactly. Vide Furyk Father's advices as well.

The subconscious mind needs to be trained through repetition of conscious thought until it becomes automatic.

Well, to a degree, yes. But the rule of thumb, IMO, is the more repetition an action needs the farther it is to a subconscious-friendly motion.

It may not need training, but it also doesn't have to deal with consequences.
Nothing about these movements are natural (until learned and repeated ad nauseum). Heck, next time you see a Habitat for Humanity site, stop in and look at how many of those folks suck at subconsciously using a hammer to hit a nail. The skill still needs to be learnt and repeated.
I bet you and I can do all sorts of new unnatural movements and patterns with our subconscious, but how many of those do you think will be done optimally or even good? The idea is to play to our potential, which is out of our comfort zone. I really prefer my subconscious to know what the heck it's doing, because guess which part of the mind has to pay at the end of the round if it doesn't?

It is AWARENESS. And it would need a different thread. A hammerman does need no awareness to hammer nails, neither he needs to watch an aiming point (LMAO). Sorry for the digression.

Cheers

 

[JEREMY5577]

You have to change the Self Image to adjust "the comfort zone." That is not easy to do, but like training the subconscious mind, it can be done.

good point. I read "with winning in mind" too. You have to convince yourself your capable of doing it or the subconscious wont do it.

 

[dschultz6072]

Yogi Berra said "you can't think and hit at the same time!"

 

[drewyallop]

Surely it varies. Arnold Palmer said his dad showed him the proper grip, told him to keep his head down and cut him loose.
Well, as it turns out keeping your head down isn't necessarily the best advice but it didn't slow Arnie down any. I'm just saying that the amount of training needed is influenced by the level of hand eye coordination and innate ability.

Agree. I am not a natural athlete and for me timing and coordination takes time. But we have all known those who are gifted with an innate sense of what muscles to engage and when regardless of what athletic motion is required, even on first try. I once saw Pele in his prime. Of course his ball handling, passing and shooting skills were superb and undoubtedly the result of hours of training from childhood. But the way he ran was miraculous. Totally effortless; he seemed to glide, feet caressing the ground. Pure altheticism and in him before he took his first step.

 

[drewitgolf]

You perform your best when you let your subconscious mind to do the work. Unlike the conscious mind that can only focus on one thing at a time, the subconscious mind can perform many things at once. If it is not properly trained and confidence is not pre-programmed, it is subject to conscious over-ride and performance will suffer. The conscious mind should only picture positive images of what you want to happen, not try to run the program.

 

[KGlennCole]

good point. I read "with winning in mind" too. You have to convince yourself your capable of doing it or the subconscious wont do it.

I would think this is a good example.. I'm not an overly long hitter and sometimes am faced with a shot that I'd need a solid (maybe) career shot to reach the green. I now choose a 3H or 4H.. unbelievable difference. Most times it feels as though the shot is effortless.. I.. oops, my subconcious has more faith in the 3H/4H.. I'm more comfortable with them than the 3W.

 

[drewitgolf]

"I just try to picture the best shot I ever hit with that club."
-Fred Couples, when asked what he thought about when hitting a golf ball

 

[hrely]

Agree. I am not a natural athlete and for me timing and coordination takes time. But we have all known those who are gifted with an innate sense of what muscles to engage and when regardless of what athleOnlytic motion is required, even on first try. I once saw Pele in his prime. Of course his ball handling, passing and shooting skills were superb and undoubtedly the result of hours of training from childhood. But the way he ran was miraculous. Totally effortless; he seemed to glide, feet caressing the ground. Pure altheticism and in him before he took his first step.

Only a few have it but we all know it when we see it, don't we? Sam Snead, Willie Mays, Secretariat......

 

[Dariusz J.]

"I just try to picture the best shot I ever hit with that club."
-Fred Couples, when asked what he thought about when hitting a golf ball

Prolly he left all conscious thoughts at setup and ended with the most subconscious-friendly action ending with a slap-hinge release.
What I find very funny is that everyone love Couples's motion while sort of not noticing how his release is "flippy" instead thinking it is what hic subconscious mind regards as the most desired one. What a stupid word "flippy". Hypocrits. LOL.

Cheers

 

[JEREMY5577]

IMHO all on course golf should be subconscious. But when you are practicing: images, feel and conscious thoughts if needed should be worked on to improve your swing.

 

[DCgolf]

IMHO all on course golf should be subconscious. But when you are practicing: images, feel and conscious thoughts if needed should be worked on to improve your swing.

Agreed. Practice in conscious mind play in unconscious. A lot of good/ great players lost it by bringing the swing and all its craziness into their conscious mind while playing. Baker-Finch, and Duval come to mind. There's a good book "With Winning in Mind" on this very thing.

 

[Dariusz J.]

IMHO all on course golf should be subconscious. But when you are practicing: images, feel and conscious thoughts if needed should be worked on to improve your swing.

Good post - until all we learn through practice tend to be subconscious-friendly. E.g. Haney or now Foley taught or teaches the best athlete (as you all think) and nothing happens. Hogan needed 1 year to recover after the crash, this guy cannot recover after a stupid knee accident. The difference is Hogan used subconscious-friendly motions, Woods is being taught from the Trackman's arse back up some ridiculous procedures, not the other way round.

Cheers

P.S. Do not answer if you are afraid that you've answered to Dariusz's Hogan threadjack

 

[SteveT]

Sorry, fellas.... in the fields of psychology and psychiatry there is no such thing as "subconscious" mind.... you only possess a "conscious" and "unconscious" state of mind.

Perhaps "subconscious" is a state of mind that only reveals itself in golfers ... sorta like "feel".