subconscious thread

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Sorry, fellas.... in the fields of psychology and psychiatry there is no such thing as "subconscious" mind.... you only possess a "conscious" and "unconscious" state of mind.

Perhaps "subconscious" is a state of mind that only reveals itself in golfers ... sorta like "feel".

The subconscious mind is recognized in the field of psychology. Although it is not tangible and must be taken on faith like much of the study of the brain, it is along with the conscious mind and the self-image taught by psychologists.
 
I'm willing to bet that this could be the longest running thread ever here. Human psychology is a patchwork of best guesses, leaps of faith and massively incomplete statistical analysis, and trying to connect any causal dots (if one can even be aware of the dots) is fraught with complexities that we probably can't overcome until the physiological basis of the brain has evolved hundreds, maybe thousands of years hence. (Scary prospect, I know)
It maybe the ultimate paradox that the most powerful computer on the planet - the human brain - is hopelessly incapable of understanding the most powerful computer on the planet. We'll try, of course, and, in some subjective realm, we'll all be convinced of our own correctness, but I think the subconscious part of a golf swing will be so very personal to each and every one of us that we'll all be right, relatively speaking...Food for thought, perhaps?
 
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SteveT

Guest
The subconscious mind is recognized in the field of psychology. Although it is not tangible and must be taken on faith like much of the study of the brain, it is along with the conscious mind and the self-image taught by psychologists.

Fair enough, there are some in psychology who believe in a "subconscious" mind, however the definition is tenuous at best.

Perhaps you can help define the "subconscious" mind, as it applies to the golfer... otherwise we are talking about something that may be quite "unscientific" and verging on nonsense. Thanks in advance.
 

Dariusz J.

New member
Fair enough, there are some in psychology who believe in a "subconscious" mind, however the definition is tenuous at best.

Perhaps you can help define the "subconscious" mind, as it applies to the golfer... otherwise we are talking about something that may be quite "unscientific" and verging on nonsense. Thanks in advance.

There is no "science" one can imagine in this realm. Until we are able to use Newtonian science in basic physics we use it because it depicts reality relatively well. But if your kid asks you what is beyond bozons - you're stupid. If your kid asks you how electrons can turn so quickly around a nucleus and provide a concise strong links to tie molecules - you're stupid. If your kid asks how is gravity being created - you're stupid.
The truth is that WE DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING IMPORTANT. We just learnt to know some weak mechanisms to depict reality. And you want us to doubt about proving the subconscious mind to exist ???

Cheers
 
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SteveT

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There is no "science" one can imagine in this realm. Until we are able to use Newtonian science in basic physics we use it because it depicts reality relatively well. But if your kid asks you what is beyond bozons - you're stupid. If your kid asks you how electrons can turn so quickly around a nucleus and provide a concise strong links to tie molecules - you're stupid. If your kid asks how is gravity being created - you're stupid.
The truth is that WE DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING IMPORTANT. We just learnt to know some weak mechanisms to depict reality. And you want us to doubt about proving the subconscious mind to exist ???

There is a reputable "science" albeit a "soft" science. Your approach seems to be that there is a "meta-subconscious" and by declaring it's existence in you, it must be.

All I'm graciously requesting is a definition of "subconscious" in the popular vernacular and as used here for the purposes of a golfswing.

Your "-you're stupid" rationale is non sequitor and approaches the logic of a banyak.
 

Dariusz J.

New member
There is a reputable "science" albeit a "soft" science. Your approach seems to be that there is a "meta-subconscious" and by declaring it's existence in you, it must be.

All I'm graciously requesting is a definition of "subconscious" in the popular vernacular and as used here for the purposes of a golfswing.

Your "-you're stupid" rationale is non sequitor and approaches the logic of a banyak.

OK, let banyak ask for the answers for the three questions he mentioned then. Let's appoint if you're not able to answer them - the title "banyak" goes to you but with the pre-title "unbelievable" :D. Deal ?

Enough jokes - FYI "subconscious" refers to mental phenomena occuring within a person's mind but which the person is not conscious of. In our case of subconscious physical activities, our conscious does not need to be aware of these phenomena because they are happening well without out conscious knowledge - like we are driving a car without directing our conscious mind to this activity.

Do not forget to try to answer a kid's three questions ? ;)

Cheers
 
OK, let banyak ask for the answers for the three questions he mentioned then. Let's appoint if you're not able to answer them - the title "banyak" goes to you but with the pre-title "unbelievable" :D. Deal ?

Enough jokes - FYI "subconscious" refers to mental phenomena occuring within a person's mind but which the person is not conscious of. In our case of subconscious physical activities, our conscious does not need to be aware of these phenomena because they are happening well without out conscious knowledge - like we are driving a car without directing our conscious mind to this activity.

Do not forget to try to answer a kid's three questions ? ;)

Cheers
What's a Banyak? I like that word. I'd like to use it more in conversation...
Seriously, chaps. don't be hurling thunderbolts at one another for this thread. The best either of you are gonna do is beat the other to death with semantics; good for the ego but precious little else. Surely there can be no set of scientific criteria to prove anything beyond the most rudimentary here. Let's keep that in mind going forward.
 
S

SteveT

Guest
OK, let banyak ask for the answers for the three questions he mentioned then. Let's appoint if you're not able to answer them - the title "banyak" goes to you but with the pre-title "unbelievable" :D. Deal ?

Enough jokes - FYI "subconscious" refers to mental phenomena occuring within a person's mind but which the person is not conscious of. In our case of subconscious physical activities, our conscious does not need to be aware of these phenomena because they are happening well without out conscious knowledge - like we are driving a car without directing our conscious mind to this activity.

Do not forget to try to answer a kid's three questions ? ;)


So shall we assume that "subconscious" is "half'n half" conscious and unconscious???!!!!:eek:

Or is it "lazy" consciousness... or "drifting" into unconsciousness???!!!!:D

Kohany Dariusz... do you know the difference between "ignorant" and "stupid"???

Obviously not...!!!!

Many of us are "ignorant" about "bozons", "electron spin" and "gravity" (..even Isaac "hypotheses non fingo" Newton).... but at least we don't descend into "stupidity" about golffing "subconsciousness"..!!!
 

Dariusz J.

New member
What's a Banyak?

Beats me. Googled the word and the closest I could find is "baniak" which is Ukrainian derogatory name for a fool. Prolly Steve thought that I understand Ukrainian because this land belonged to Poland for a few centuries. Unfortunately, I do not.

Cheers
 

Dariusz J.

New member
So shall we assume that "subconscious" is "half'n half" conscious and unconscious???!!!!:eek:

Or is it "lazy" consciousness... or "drifting" into unconsciousness???!!!!:D

Kohany Dariusz... do you know the difference between "ignorant" and "stupid"???

Obviously not...!!!!

Many of us are "ignorant" about "bozons", "electron spin" and "gravity" (..even Isaac "hypotheses non fingo" Newton).... but at least we don't descend into "stupidity" about golffing "subconsciousness"..!!!

No, dear Steve. Besides "dear" in Polish is "kochany", not "kohany". I do not think subconscious is not hanf'n'half conscious and unconscious - they exist rather as halves of the same apple depending in where the apple with its state of mind exists at the moment.

I apologize for the word "stupid" if it means anything more than "silly".

Good night all.
 
You are probably unconsciously aware that you are conscious but it is more difficult to imagine being consciously aware that you are unconscious. My mind rebels at the idea. My mind? Who am I if I am not my mind? And now that I am consciously thinking about it, what is unconscious anyway?
 

hp12c

New
So shall we assume that "subconscious" is "half'n half" conscious and unconscious???!!!!:eek:

Or is it "lazy" consciousness... or "drifting" into unconsciousness???!!!!:D

Kohany Dariusz... do you know the difference between "ignorant" and "stupid"???

Obviously not...!!!!

Many of us are "ignorant" about "bozons", "electron spin" and "gravity" (..even Isaac "hypotheses non fingo" Newton).... but at least we don't descend into "stupidity" about golffing "subconsciousness"..!!!

Hey Steve I've also wrestled with this idea of the subcionscious mind, Im in the camp of Im either conscious or not. A few year ago I purchased an e book on how to use ones subsconcious mind to take over the golf swing and maing it automatic by repeating a phrase, either loud or in my mind. It didnt work Im aware of what Im doing no matter what Im thinking about. For those who beleive in the subconscious, good for you, Im not here to argue my position, but I am enjoying the discussion.
 
The conscious mind can only think of ONE thing at a time. It controls all of your senses. It is your choice whether to make it positive or negative. if you are thinking positively, it is impossible to think negative at the same time.
Without the subconscious mind, you couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time.
 

dbl

New
Hp12c, I'm sure ultimately you could be trained (or drugged) to get to a point where you can have a sense of self with no conscious thinking chatter.

Or maybe I misunderstood your being not conscious at times- I assumed that didn't happen often or you meant like being totally out-unconscious.
 
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The conscious mind can only think of ONE thing at a time. It controls all of your senses. It is your choice whether to make it positive or negative. if you are thinking positively, it is impossible to think negative at the same time.
Without the subconscious mind, you couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time.
I agree, knowing this can change your game. If you know you can't let negitive thoughts creep into your swing you can build a preshot routine to keep them out and only think positive thoughts. By the time I'm ready to swing I actually feel a little excited to hit the shot. If you mess up just forget about it and move on and if you flush it I say to your self "man I'm cool":cool: and move on. If your saying alot of "man I'm cools" you are having fun golfing.
 

hp12c

New
Hp12c, I'm sure ultimately you could be trained (or drugged) to get to a point where you can have a sense of self with no conscious thinking chatter.

Or maybe I misunderstood your being not conscious at times- I assumed that didn't happen often or you meant like being totally out-unconscious.

when Im asleep Im unconscious when Im awake Im conscious and yes with all the mind chatter going on.
 
I think we're talking about the processes the cerebellum takes care of. Such as why you don't plug an ice cream cone into your forehead when you want to eat it. You don't "think" about how to eat it, you just "do" it.
 
The cerebellum is located in the lower posterior region of the brain, under the cerebrum, and behind the brainstem. Like the cerebrum, it is divided into two hemispheres, and has both white and gray matter.

The cerebellum is responsible for the coordination and smooth execution of our skeleton and skeletal muscle, and is also responsible for equilibrium. While the cerebrum is the part of the brain that forms and sends physical commands, like to kick a ball, or pick up a pencil, the action can not be performed unless something is monitoring the body’s actual position and comparing it with what the cerebrum’s intentions are.

This is the job of the cerebellum; when a movement is conducted, sensory neurons send information to the cerebellum about what the body is actually doing, and then the cerebellum compares it’s positioning and skeleton-muscular contraction to what is going on in the outside environment and what the body should be doing. Once the cerebellum processes this information, and finds that something is not going as commanded, it orders the motor neurons to smooth out the muscle functioning, resulting in more coordinated movement.

All of the work of the cerebellum is done subconsciously, and in milliseconds, so unless there is something wrong with the cerebellum, the recoordination of the body’s movement is never noticed.

The cerebellum controls equilibrium by processing information from the equilibrium apparatus which is found in the inner ear, and is joined to the cerebellum through special fibers.
 
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