Kevin, I was taught to position my left arm at the top of the backswing parallel with the shaft plane at address from the DTL view. I struggle to reach that position. So I would be very interested in hearing what the pre-requisites are for swinging flat. Thanks.
Swinging flat... can suck...
- Thread starter kc8kir
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Kevin, I was taught to position my left arm at the top of the backswing parallel with the shaft plane at address from the DTL view. I struggle to reach that position. So I would be very interested in hearing what the pre-requisites are for swinging flat. Thanks.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Ahh, parallel planes, congruent angles theory. Well, Im not judge and jury and requirements to swing flat but if you cant get the depth of hands to reach that position that would be one. If your swing isnt naturally narrow enough would be another.
I'd bet my bottom dollar that early extension in the downswing has very little to to with weak glues, abs or heavy balls for that matter
Its just poor technique, steep/outside planes probably more than anything else. And when you consider the old goat hump and the ground forces, extension is a move that has to be made a some point anyway.
I've been on these physical and mental courses (TPI, NLP etc) and I just think its all VERY overrated. I've been fit and now I'm not, and I play better now than at most times in my past. I've got weak glutes and abs, cos I'm enjoying my food at the moment and not enjoying the pain of training but I can still hit it pretty good. In fact when I was fit, I early extended MORE!
I agree in most cases it's to do with technique.You have to be very below average in flexibility and strength to not be able to physically hold lower spine posture.
Here is Steve Elkington early extending which I never noticed him do early in his career when he was winning tournaments.I wonder if this has something to do with his slump?In this case definitely a technique issue,not a physical one.
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cAJGqSbL2JA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
For me, I think the issue is I simply am more acclimated to a DTL release using the TSP, rather than an elbow plane release left, and my continual attempts to change that and force a flat swing are counterproductive. I'm fighting my instincts the entire time.
Hit some balls into a net yesterday. Felt awesome with the upright backswing, squarer shoulders at impact and, more importantly, a matching high finish. Range day tomorrow!
Hit some balls into a net yesterday. Felt awesome with the upright backswing, squarer shoulders at impact and, more importantly, a matching high finish. Range day tomorrow!
So what was the reason for going flat to begin with?
Interesting. Tim Simpson told me that his weight moves cross-lateral to his big left toe THEN to the left heel. What do you think?
Matt 4-L
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I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that. At what point are his hips clearing, weight on left toe or weight on left heel? There is basically two moves for the hips, the slide to the left to get your weight on the left side, so you can then clear the hips, which is almost impossible to do if your weight is out on your toes.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Go with it...dont fight it
Agreed! The range session today wasn't too bad. Had a bit of trouble at first with not enough vertical uncocking of the left wrist (resulting in thin shots and toe hooked irons). A little left hand chopping action to regain the feel of the ground contact, and the 3 wood starting flying like a rocket. Long fading shots.
Very pleased.
Very pleased.
birdie_man
New
Agreed w Kevin. Not that I am a teacher, but I am a TSPer. EP is a no-no for me, after all my efforts. (I try everything)
Nicklaus, Toms, and whoever else. Do I even have to go past Nicklaus??
TSPers, rejoice!!
Again, so far I have no idea how to make a swing with an EP downswing work well. I still want to learn it, but at this point that I assume will only be for my own understanding. I must presume that I am TSP 4 Life.
Nicklaus, Toms, and whoever else. Do I even have to go past Nicklaus??
TSPers, rejoice!!
Again, so far I have no idea how to make a swing with an EP downswing work well. I still want to learn it, but at this point that I assume will only be for my own understanding. I must presume that I am TSP 4 Life.
Jwat
New
Hey Kev,
You are the one who first identified my early extension. I didn't really look into it until several weeks later. I have been seeing a muscle therapist and have really tight hip flexors and back upper quads. Once a week appts has helped maintain that angle physically.
But mentally is a different story. Being an ex-baseball player this early extension is a signature move for us and part of our power package. With a baseball swing there is no other way but to extend the hips as you open them up based on our spine angle. Working on the early extension has made a world of difference in my swing.
There are also 2 other points that you suggested that I have finally put together.
1. Getting my hands down as early as I can in the downswing. (low hands at impact)
2. Controlling my knee action
I think that knee action is not talked about in golf instruction near as much as it should be. And maybe its because most amateurs may not swing like me, but every guy I play with has pretty poor knee action. My biggest fault concerning the knees is the left knee going towards the ball on the backswing. This is my "pull" trigger. Everytime my left knee goes towards ball I severly swing to the inside and poof goes the pull hook. I have fixed two guys in my groups pulls and big hooks from knee action alone.
Going back to the early extension, my swing thought here is to try and push my butt through the imaginary wall behind me. I can actually hit cuts with my irons the more I do this. But, if I get weak knees it doesn't matter how much I push through the wall I still get the big hook. I also try and push my knees back with my butt. Don't know if this is correct or not, but when I get super squaty with the knees (knees sitting over toes), I cannot control them and they must move back and forth. So the less bend in the knees and the placing of them over the center of my foot closer to the heel instead of toes has really cured the pull.
And for me, chaning swing path or whatever does not cure the early extension. I have to consiously push the butt back.
Thanks for all the advice Kevin, I will post some video soon of my swing so you can see the progress. Your insight is a big reason for my improvement.
Jwat
New
Its when the left knee moves over the toes toward the ball (not behind it on the backswing). And yes even if the knee moves behind the ball but goes over the toes you are still shifting your entire body towards the ball giving you a severely underplane inside swing. It can also lead to reverse pivots and restricted shoulder turns. (Big Power Leaks)
Try making a big left shoulder turn while pushing the left knee forward, almost impossible. I have found that while pushing my butt through the wall, I also have to sort of do the same with my knees. That keeps my weight centered over my feet and not get too much back on my heels. That works for me, but may not work for everyone. But I can guarantee that the left knee pushing over the toes is a move fit for disaster
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
From one early extender to another, glad there has been progress
How did you work on this? I have been trying to work on a more vertical hand path in the downswing with limited success.
A little wrinkle that is helping me is to have a sense of where my hands are supposed to be at impact. It helps me to exaggerate it a bit by feeling that my hands will occupy the spot at impact that my left thigh occupied at address. I feel the "ball tossing attitude" that Brian mentions. It truelly does feel like you are swinging across your thigh.
Passing question if I may. I typically stand up through the hitting area as my hands move away from my thigh! I know better than to stay in my addresss posture, but obviously I need a little be more forward bend at impact. I feel as though the more aggressively I tumble the better my posture is at impact. I have not way of knowing at present, but is it a reasonable assumption that lagging the sweetspot encourages a better tush line?
Passing question if I may. I typically stand up through the hitting area as my hands move away from my thigh! I know better than to stay in my addresss posture, but obviously I need a little be more forward bend at impact. I feel as though the more aggressively I tumble the better my posture is at impact. I have not way of knowing at present, but is it a reasonable assumption that lagging the sweetspot encourages a better tush line?
Jwat
New
It has worked very well for all my clubs but especially my driver. My only swingthought on the downswing is get the hands as low and fast as possible in the downswing. Don't think of clearing left side or any of that. I think if this is a new move for someone the only way to accomplish it is to only be focusing on that one thought.
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