Sounds like you're currently using a Double Shift. Elbow -> Turned Shoulder going back, then Turned Shoulder -> Elbow coming down. It very, very common for people to use this type of shift. If it's working, then stick with it. Just note that a Zero Shift on the Turned Shoulder Plane is the ideal.
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Takeaway
- Thread starter ryantiff
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Sounds like you're currently using a Double Shift. Elbow -> Turned Shoulder going back, then Turned Shoulder -> Elbow coming down. It very, very common for people to use this type of shift. If it's working, then stick with it. Just note that a Zero Shift on the Turned Shoulder Plane is the ideal.
quote:Originally posted by EdZ
turned shoulder plane includes the point at the top of the spine/base of neck by definition, it is the center point of the shoulders - your shirt label
Sorry. I thought it was where the shoulder turned to was at the toop of the backswing.
quote:Originally posted by EdZ
turned shoulder plane includes the point at the top of the spine/base of neck by definition, it is the center point of the shoulders - your shirt label
The Turned Shoulder Plane is drawn from the Sweetspot (or the ball) to the point where the right shoulder ends up at the top.
Or at address, you can approximate this line by drawing it through the very top of your armpit.
EdZ,
That is an excellent visual. It also reminds me of a Yoda drill where he takes something like a bungee cord and has someone stand on it at approximately where the ball would be, then:
1. He assumes Address;
2. He takes it up with the Right Forearm Takeaway/Pickup;
3. He takes it down with the Straight Line Delivery Path.
That is an excellent visual. It also reminds me of a Yoda drill where he takes something like a bungee cord and has someone stand on it at approximately where the ball would be, then:
1. He assumes Address;
2. He takes it up with the Right Forearm Takeaway/Pickup;
3. He takes it down with the Straight Line Delivery Path.
quote:Originally posted by EdZ
Very much agree with the lawn mower image.... keep the right palm facing the ball on the plane, and pull the cord back, up, and in - and then right back down, out and forward - follow the cord - keep the right palm perpendicular to the cord, and skip a rock
Wouldn't the right wrist and alos the left have to turn so the clubb could cock on plane?
Edz's visual "right palm facing the ball" is very helful, Thanks. I would also want to confirm that in doing the pull, you shuold have the right elbow fixed and act as a pivot (as also bu Edz), therefore the right forearm is pulling to the right and facing the ball, tracing the line and very much like a pitching position. Otherwise (that what I used to do, I believe is incorrect), I have the whole thing (forearm and elbow) picking up, the rigth forearm facing the plane line (more like covering the plane line) and create more like a driving (punching) position. Correct?
quote:Originally posted by holenone
quote:Originally posted by EdZ
Very much agree with the lawn mower image.... keep the right palm facing the ball on the plane, and pull the cord back, up, and in - and then right back down, out and forward - follow the cord - keep the right palm perpendicular to the cord, and skip a rock
Wouldn't the right wrist and alos the left have to turn so the clubb could cock on plane?
Yes, but they turn because of the left shoulder.... like a left handed frisbee throw
twist away is what prevents the 'out and over' roll that most folks have, the independent, clockwise, roll of the arms - you wouldn't throw a frisbee by rolling the hand independently of the arm/shoulder, you could never throw it - but that is how the majority of folks start their takeaway....
re: elbows down - imagine at address you had an 'elbow/upper arm' plane board - now keep your left elbow/under arm on that board until hip high (in other words, don't roll so that the inside of your upper arm is on the board) - you can't 'really' keep it there, but the image should give you the right idea, of that elbow pointing more down, and the right elbow folding and staying pointing down too - once you get the general idea, you will see the merits of 'twist away' in helping you with the proper takeaway feel - the club staying outside the hands until hip high
In this thread, it talks about the advantage of zero shift and right forearm takeaway, Fred Couple was mentioned on how simple it was, pick the club up!
I read an article by Tom Stickney (G.S.E.D.) in the Golf Illustrated magazine on Spring 2003. Tom talked about Fred's swing and he said:
1. The reverse shift is the tupe of action Fred Couples uses as he lifts the club steeply to the top with a high right shoulder and then re-routes the club back to the shaft plane line established at address. Then, he said:
2. The reverse shift is just like the single shift but in reverse. The club was lifted steeply to the tip with a high right shoulder and then re-route the club back to the shaft plane line establihed at address. This may be the easiest plane angle shift to make, because if you take it steeply straight up, then the only place for it to go on the way down is back to the inside. Players wo use the reverse shift must have powerful lateral and rotary hip motions to aid the reversing action on the way down. They also tend to have slower transitions and back problems later. The only problem with this plane angle shift is that it does not give the club time to drop back to the shaft plane line on the way down.
I tried the right arm takeaway and have similiar motion as described above: pick the club up and right shoulder thurst down to hit inside to aft. My questions are:
1. Why not using zero shift instead, couldn't find players with zero shift yet.
2. Does it really need powerful lateral and rotary hip motion? What I am trying to do now is right forearm up, right shoulder down for tansition. Does not feel the requirement of powerful hip motion?
3. Back problems! Is this true?
4. Not enough time for the club to drop down to shaft plane line?
Please comments.
I read an article by Tom Stickney (G.S.E.D.) in the Golf Illustrated magazine on Spring 2003. Tom talked about Fred's swing and he said:
1. The reverse shift is the tupe of action Fred Couples uses as he lifts the club steeply to the top with a high right shoulder and then re-routes the club back to the shaft plane line established at address. Then, he said:
2. The reverse shift is just like the single shift but in reverse. The club was lifted steeply to the tip with a high right shoulder and then re-route the club back to the shaft plane line establihed at address. This may be the easiest plane angle shift to make, because if you take it steeply straight up, then the only place for it to go on the way down is back to the inside. Players wo use the reverse shift must have powerful lateral and rotary hip motions to aid the reversing action on the way down. They also tend to have slower transitions and back problems later. The only problem with this plane angle shift is that it does not give the club time to drop back to the shaft plane line on the way down.
I tried the right arm takeaway and have similiar motion as described above: pick the club up and right shoulder thurst down to hit inside to aft. My questions are:
1. Why not using zero shift instead, couldn't find players with zero shift yet.
2. Does it really need powerful lateral and rotary hip motion? What I am trying to do now is right forearm up, right shoulder down for tansition. Does not feel the requirement of powerful hip motion?
3. Back problems! Is this true?
4. Not enough time for the club to drop down to shaft plane line?
Please comments.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Where does "shaft plane" appear in the book?
When has Couples ever not had his hands high at impact?
When has Couples ever not had his hands high at impact?
The wording on point 1 and 2 was copied exactly from the article. It was on Golf illustrated: Swing Secrets special issue (display until July 1st, 2003). It was by Tom F. Stickney who is a G.S.E.D. If what is mentioned is incorrect then I found we do have a serious problem in turn of learning TGM. Even a G.S.E.D. comments on plane shift is not correct how can we sure to learn the right stuff!
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