Teachers: What is the hardest thing to fix?

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ej20

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Dan44GT said:
Sorry, a little late here but my biggest challenge for new students to overcome is the "flip". I think there are a lot of reasons why people flip...incorrect concept, making the ball the target, poor face/grip, improper sequencing, etc.... Brian's C.O.F.F. is a great video and I've used some of the drills but I just feel this is what separates the "Rec" Golfer from the "Advanced" Golfer. Certainly it could be said Flipping could be because of Mental or Physical traits.
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Flipping is the result of not doing the twistaway.You can do it on the backswing and then hold the twist coming down(Dustin Johnson) or you don't twistaway on the backswing but do it on the downswing(Ben Hogan and harder to do in my opinion).

Flippers may twistaway going back but then "untwist" coming down negating the good work.Or they don't twistaway at all during the backswing or downswing.

I think understanding the correct mechanics of lead wrist rotation goes a long way to fix flipping but I agree it is a big challenge.Trapping the ball and delofting the clubface is not easy to do in a full out swing.
 
Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

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aaron_lohan said:
Im not a teacher but wouldn't it be hard to get golfers out of the obsession with keeping the head down?
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Yes.

I play to a +1, but I play with more 10+ handicappers than anybody I've ever met at my level of golf.

And they ALL say the same thing when they hit a shot that doesn't get airborne or very airborne.

'moving my head!'

If I were an instructor, my first order of business would be to make a crusade against this 'keep your head down' crap. Only 10% of the golfing population gets lessons. I believe the other 90% is largely due to the thought that 'if I keep my head down, I'll get the ball airborne and since I cannot get the ball airborne, that means I am too dumb to not keep my head down so why should I get a lesson.'

I'd have probably 20 different slo-mo videos of guys hitting shanks, top balls, worm burners, chunks, sky balls, etc. Get them paused at impact showing their head down and put the pics of their impact with the head down on a wall and write down what their end result was (shank, top, etc). Showing that keeping your head down is all nonsense.

It has to be a crusade IMO because that's such a strong belief, probably stronger than any erroneous belief in golf. I'm kind of surprised that I've yet to see an instructor be adamant about this. I think it would help them gain a lot of business.





3JACK
 
natep

natep

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LOL Yes! I see players all the time who mutter about "peeking" and "looking up" when really the problem is a steep chop hack.

"Keep your head down" is probably the most deeply imbedded rule of thumb in the consciousness of the average golfer.
 
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golfdad

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i think generally speaking, it is not easy to find great listeners among students. we don't listen well; we don't think but we do:)
 
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SteveT

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But the head mass is like a counterbalancing weight that maintains the swing pivot in the shoulders. If the head bobs up in final Release that will destabilize the shoulder pivot and hence the arm action ... and then anything can happen..!!

You should differentiate between vertical and lateral shifting of the head mass in the downswing. One is acceptable and the other is a death move...!!!

You gotta do something with the head, because there are no 'headless' golfers .. brainless, yes ... headless, no ...!!!
 
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Jim Kobylinski

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Making someone understand that playing golf and obtaining a good score is different from striking the ball well. While there is a correlation it isn't an absolute.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

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SteveT said:
I suspect novice golfers think they must actively 'flip' the hands to align the club to the ball at Impact ... whereas advanced golfers let it happen as a natural consequence of Release. Novice golfers just don't have the confidence or understanding of golfswing mechanics and try to consciously create a golfswing. Does that make sense to you?
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Honestly, i find most novice golfers flip because they just don't know they are not supposed too. They think it's how you hit the ball.
 
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SteveT

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Jim Kobylinski said:
Honestly, i find most novice golfers flip because they just don't know they are not supposed too. They think it's how you hit the ball.
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Yes ... they 'consciously' think of flipping their hands in a futile attempt to gain power. Flipping makes them feel like they are putting every last ounce of effort into their golfswing, so they flip even more vigorously..!!!

Hogan wrote about 'supination' .. and naive, ignorant golfers think that if they super-pronate that will add power to their swing. It doesn't because the supination only rotates the club axially to square the clubface through final Release action.

Spinning the club axially may 'feel' powerful, but it doesn't add anything to the rotation of the club around the body pivot.
 
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ej20

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I don't think supination will add much power in the form of higher clubhead speed,if any at all.What it does is almost guarantee ball first contact and then turf.Hogan said this is the key for that "sweet feeling".People who flip at impact will never experience that sweet feeling.

Dustin Johnson does not supinate into impact.He supinates in his backswing and holds that supinated position into impact.He does not lack for power.
 
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SteveT

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@ ej20 ... it all goes back into how you load the golf shaft in the downswing ... some load it smoothly without a 'whipsnap' unloading into Impact ... others peak their loading going into Impact and then get a very pronounced unloading that is called 'whipsnap'.

You're right in pointing out that supination and flipping does not necessarily produce power.
 
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SteveT

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greenfree said:
Is whipsnap a technical term? what is whipsnap and how does it unload into impact?
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Whips 'snap' when the flexible tip receives all the kinetic energy from the whipper's arm and the mass of the whip ... sending the tip beyond the speed of sound ... so that it loudly 'cracks' ...!!!!!

If you can't develop enough swing speed and your shafts are too stiff, you will never 'whipsnap' your clubs. It's something you feel upon Impact if everything falls into place. Try to whipsnap a club with a very flexible shaft and when you make sweet contact with the ball, you will 'feel' the whipsnap effect... believe it.
 
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ej20

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My definition of whipsnap would be maximum trigger delay plus maximum accumulator lag.

Think hands low and clubhead high through impact and then thump the living crap out of the turf in front of the ball.
 
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greenfree

Banned
SteveT said:
Whips 'snap' when the flexible tip receives all the kinetic energy from the whipper's arm and the mass of the whip ... sending the tip beyond the speed of sound ... so that it loudly 'cracks' ...!!!!!

If you can't develop enough swing speed and your shafts are too stiff, you will never 'whipsnap' your clubs. It's something you feel upon Impact if everything falls into place. Try to whipsnap a club with a very flexible shaft and when you make sweet contact with the ball, you will 'feel' the whipsnap effect... believe it.
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That doesn't tell me what whipsnap is , what are you referring to i.e. shaft kick or uncocking wrists or lead and lag or shaft droop or..? Is there data that shows this "whipsnap" occuring and how and what is the cause of it in the swing? What is enough swing speed? What is too stiff? I assume it's different for every golfer. Do you think a change in a shaft flex will affect swing speed?
 
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ej20

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I suppose whipsnap is not a precise scientific term.It's a relative term.Someone might feel like they are cracking a whip but will look nothing like the extreme wrist lag of Sergio Garcia on slomo video.

But thinking hands low and clubhead high will get you more whipsnap than what you have now.
 
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